You’ve Been Served-Three Critical Steps to Take Next (Ep. 36)

Justin Sisemore  00:00

Welcome back, everybody. I’m Justin Sisemore, we’re going to talk today a little bit about the divorce process and the key takeaways of what you should do in the beginning. I want to introduce the panel. This is Mary Maloney. She helps write everything down. Get our blogs right, get us organized on this podcast. Andrea entrepreneur, awesome, awesome business development person, been through a lot of life experiences, so we try to bring a dynamic approach. And we’re going to kick it off with you, Mary, just kind of tell us where we’re going and what we’re going to talk about today.

Mary Maloney  00:27

All right, so when you get served with divorce papers, you really need to act fast. So what we really want to talk about today are the different things that you should do, and critically, the first three steps that you should really take in that short term when you get served with divorce papers. So you’ve been served. What do you do?

Justin Sisemore  00:44

Yeah, so as they say, the movie says you got served. So let’s talk about what that means. And really, before we talk about service of process, I want to talk about what you need to think about if you think you’re about to go through a divorce even before the service of process. So the first thing when we’re talking about getting served. What does that mean? You know, everybody sees the movies where they the Jerry Maguires of the world. They come hand you the paperwork, and it’s basically called due process. It means that you’ve been notified of a lawsuit, and that kind of starts the clock rolling. What we see a lot of times is people are very confused about that 20 day answer requirement. So you’ll see some notifications on there that actually require you to come in and file a written answer. So the first thing you want to look at is a is your spouse looking? Or maybe it’s the mother or father in a custody case? Are they? Are you thinking that they’re about to go back and file? Because it can be very stressful just dealing with the concept of, how fast do you have to go engage an attorney, how fast you have to come up with money, you have to take off work, and then really, What documents do you need to get in preparation? And so I just think it’s really critical if you’re if you’re feeling that feeling, that’s when it’s really important at the consult phase to start doing your homework and research, but actually getting back to the service of process. So there’s really two ways to do service of process in a divorce or custody setting. So the first one is what we call a waiver of service. And that’s kind of the manila we’ve been really nice. Here’s the documentation. I’m a firm believer of there’s really not a nice way to sue somebody, a waiver of service effectually, once it’s signed and notarized and given back to the attorney and filed with the court, that then kind of kicks off the process. So you know that’s really going to entail we’re getting along really well. We both know it’s coming, and we’re really not worried about somebody going and bleeding the bank accounts or running off with the kids or whatever. So I still like the I call it the band aid approach to service, which is, let’s just get a process server and get them out there if you’ve still got all of the prerequisites to you know, you’re both being kind. You’re both being cordial. At that point, it’s sometimes okay to go ahead and say, Hey, a process server is coming over to hand this documentation over, and it really doesn’t get received from what we’ve seen that differently than potentially having a process server come now, you also see the people that get served at work, and they get served on kids birthdays and at Christmas, and I see the lawyers out there that try to make service a part of, I guess, their character of letting the world know how strong they are. I think it’s a very cheap move, and candidly, I don’t think it has a lot of impact. I think it just stokes the fire and adds to legal fees and frustration so

Andrea Jones  03:31

and scared

Justin Sisemore  03:32

 and scared. Yeah, so I just really liked the idea of, in the consult talking about that, and then in the follow up consult talking about the logistics of when that’s going to happen, how it’s going to happen, and that’s just, that’s just the service piece. The main thing I want people to remember, though, is even though that 20 day situation or response time is in there, you know, some people will hear, well, in Texas, you’ve got a 60 day waiting period so they can’t default you. Well, don’t wait until these deadlines like they’re not just suggestions. You can actually get defaulted in custody cases and modifications and enforcements and things you don’t know about. So if you are the type that you’ve been served a document and you’re going to stick it over here because it’s too stressful, or if you’ve received a waiver of service and you’re just not really sure you want to sign it you’ve been sued, so it’s a good time if you haven’t done it already, to go ahead and consult an attorney and walk through that

Mary Maloney  04:29

absolutely. So there are three different steps, Andrea, you and I were kind of talking about that you want to take immediately if you’ve been served as well or in that general time period. So, and one of them is just kind of figuring out, how do you kind of handle your day to day lives and the events that are surrounding those like, you know, childcare, who lives in the family, family home, and those types of things. So could you both weigh in on that?

Justin Sisemore  04:55

Yeah, so, and I’ll kick it over Andrea, because I’ve been talking too much. But the bottom line Is when you, when you first start out, and you, you’ve got, really a two week window. And, you know, we’ve talked about what a temporary restraining order is and and getting hearing set, usually you’re inside of about a month to two month period. And sometimes that can be shortened and condensed down to two to three days and two to three weeks. So, you know, when you’re looking at, where am I going to, you know, how am I going to take off? How am I going to get childcare? Those are things that lawyers kind of often overlook and presume you know that, hey, you’ve been served. Here’s a notice of hearing. They don’t really walk through the logistics of, we’re going to have five phone calls, or we’re going to do cross examination, or you need to get summary timelines together and these documentations together. So, you know, I think it’s really good for people, and people listening here today to ask those questions, what is it going to what does it mean after we serve, what am I going to get in response? What am I going to get together? Because it’s not just the person being served, it’s also the person that’s that’s serving, right that kicks off another lawyer on the other side to kind of do their thing. So I just think that that that logistic piece gets overlooked, and it’s just important to think about, right?

Andrea Jones  06:07

Yeah, and I think then to step before that. I mean, if you feel like your marriage is on the rocks or something is potentially going to happen, I mean, you can be blindsided. You have no idea. We have clients all the time. Call and say, I did not even know that this is coming. But if you kind of feel it’s not going down the right way, I think the ducks have to be in a row before that. And I’m a big fan when you feel it’s coming, be prepared, meaning, get some help. I think the first thing, because no matter how I remember that my divorce, no matter how strong you are and how you’re handling the kids and everything yourself, when you get served, especially for females, it’s kind of like get pull the rug underneath your feet, and all of a sudden you fall into this because security is so important for us women, and it’s important for men too, but I think it was more important for women, and when that security is gone, no matter whether you did everything by yourself before you fall into this hole, and if you know it’s coming, I think it’s a good idea to prepare yourself, meaning you ask around with friends and say, hey, it’s not doing well. Have you ever used an attorney? Have any of your friends ever used an attorney? Referrals are key, and I think the legal Trends Report, I’ll refer to that later, but the legal Trends report said that over 70% of people do not refer an attorney because they were not the attorney was not well received by them. So if you ask your friends and they refer an attorney, I think you can trust that even more. And so have an attorney that you talk to. We always say, Talk to 1 2 3, attorneys get get a good idea. So have that duck in a row. But I think for personally, you need to get some help. You need to have somebody you can talk to, because it’s going to be an emotional time, and if you you’re going to wear out your friends. If you constantly talk to your friends. A big fan of counselors, if it’s coming, get prepared. Get a counselor on board to get you mentally stable. Because you have to be mentally stable, especially for the kids. You need to keep your side of the street clean. So you need to also make sure you don’t do anything wrong. So don’t take any steps unless you talk to an attorney. I think a lot of people make those mistakes. Oh, I moved out the house because I can’t stand them anymore. That is legal repercussions. So I would say, ask your friends for a good referral for an attorney. Talk to an attorney, even if you just feel it’s lingering out there. Get your ducks in a row. You can talk about what you need as an attorney. Get your ducks in a row and then get some help, counseling and friends that going to be on your side. I think that’s the most important thing.

Justin Sisemore  08:18

Yeah, and Andrea has been this through this before, so, like, it’s, it’s really nice to hear both perspectives, like from the lawyer and and clients, because, I mean, it’s a totally different mindset. Like when you do something 1000s of times, you kind of go, all right, they understand this. And we skip over those details as lawyers a lot. So back to your question, when you’re talking about, like, who lives in the family home? What do you do with childcare? Looking back to the finances. I mean, those are really critical, because you have very short term and very long term plays. So I always say macro and micro. But when we’re looking at the micro or the short term play, like if, what if one person’s in the house and you don’t have your keys, right, right? Those are things that lawyers don’t even really think about. Well, just go to the house and kick the door in. Well, yeah, but, I mean, you may not want to do that with your kids there.

Andrea Jones  09:06

Or locked out of all certain rooms that happen to me, all of a sudden, you can’t get into your office. You can’t get into the bedroom, because there’s all of a sudden a lock on the door. Childish behavior, kindergarten behavior. But some people go to those,

Justin Sisemore  09:17

yeah, well, I mean, I tell people number one, after you’ve talked to an attorney, do not vacate the residence until you’ve talked to an attorney. Like, you know, especially now if you’ve if you’ve been out for six months, don’t just, like, kick the door back in and be like, Hey, honey, I’m having the night, good night’s sleep with you. Like that can cause some other issues, but, but when we’re talking about, you know, one week or two days, or you’ve gone to stay at your mother’s house for a minute really be think about thinking about the access points that you need to get back in. Now, obviously, if there’s family violence or there’s a tumultuous relationship with drugs and alcohol, we want to be thinking about safety first. But when it comes to vacating the residents, the reason that that can be problematic in Documentation perspective is, you know, like, like, Andrea just said, all of a sudden, everything gets moved out of the house, and all the documents that you thought were in your safe, the safes not there. So, you know, one of the, one of the injunctions we actually have is, like, entering safety deposit boxes. And you know, I always ask, I always ask myself, How did you come up with this list? Whoever came up with that list about what the injunctions or restraining orders are, and those are, like, the temporary things.

Andrea Jones  10:25

Can you explain? Because I don’t think everybody knows what an injunction is. Can you explain what an injunction is?

Justin Sisemore  10:28

Yeah. So the restraining order, the TRO that you see oftentimes accompanied with the petition that you get served with, has a list of do’s and don’ts, and it’ll say, like, restricting someone from access to a residence, or something like diverting the mail or going into their email and changing passwords.

Andrea Jones  10:47

And is that, is that when I get served as an initial serving, or is that when I go to the hearing already?

Justin Sisemore  10:52

Yeah, so the the restraining order, generally, the restraining the general rule is the restraining order becomes the temporary injunction. So what you’re getting to in a very short period of time. That’s why I talk about the micro and macro in a two week window. The court wants to put protections in place, because a lot can happen in business and with people in two weeks. So they’re not going to be able to get to you unless it’s an emergency, at least for that time period. And that temporary restraining order basically has a list of do’s and don’ts after you get served that document. So again, Mary, when we talk about waivers of service, well, if you’ve got millions of dollars sitting in a bank and you’re just hoping that nobody goes and moves it, or if you’ve got somebody that has a baby, specifically with like young kids and their family lives four states away, you want to have some restrictions in place that there is recourse between that timetable of getting to court in that 14 day period. So from the difference of to your question, Andrea, you know, temporary restraining orders that become injunctions, oftentimes those that language will be very parallel,

Andrea Jones  11:54

But it’s in just to make, to confirm it’s when I get served those. If I get served, those injunctions are going to be in the initial serving and they’re valid right then? Or do they become valid when I respond

Justin Sisemore  12:04

those, those, they’re, they’re called restraining orders. They’re orders that restrain an individual from certain actions so that will once they’re received that documentation, it was served by a process server, they’re effective immediately. So we go back to the waiver of service. If you’re trying to Kumbaya, because you don’t want to, you know, I guess, rock that ward or start the war or whatever else, and you don’t have that TRO in place, and something goes missing, you know, you can, you can try to hopefully claw it back in the form of later subject or future property division, but it doesn’t happen right away. Or if somebody just bounces out with your child for a month or two, and you’re just kind of hoping that y’all are going to get back on the same page. Usually we see one party really controlling the narrative, right? So they control the child, where the child is when they talk to you and all that. So I like to go ahead and rip that band aid off and get them served with that TRO it tells them how to act. And then there’s things that I do in between that two week period, and that my firm does in that if you’ve got somebody that, let’s say, the court continues the case now, all of a sudden, you’re pushed back another two weeks. Well, now you got to go back up to court get an extenuation of that TRO, or continuation of that TRO, because it’s expired or will expire, and you need to make sure that that person is being contacted by the attorney, especially if they have counsel to say, hey, we want to have the kid these days, right? Or the child these days, and we want to see the child, because one of the things in the TRO is actually hiding or secreting the child from the other parent, right?

Andrea Jones  13:29

So I need to pay attention when I get the when I get served, because we’re talking about like you have been served. What do you need to do? So I need to not just put that in the corner. I need to actually read it, or have somebody help me read it, to see what it says in there, the things I can and cannot do

Justin Sisemore  13:42

absolutely. I mean, yes, just yesterday I did a consult with with this lady, and super nice. And she was just like, hey, listen, you know, he’s taken off with this child, and I think we’re going to work through this. And I said, Well, how long has it been? She said, well, two weeks. And I said, Well, what do you what’s your plan? And she said, Well, my attorney has a notice of hearing. It was out of county. I said, Well, was there any TRO put in place? Was there any she was like, what is that? So, I mean, these are things where, if you don’t do this a lot, and you haven’t seen it a lot, you don’t even know to ask, right and then you’re sitting there going, well, this just seems normal. But you know, it’s feeling like it’s not very comfortable right now, and how much longer am I gonna have to go through this? So I’m just really, really, I’m kind of hell bent, honestly, on getting the stuff set up the right way in the beginning and making sure those TRO are in place, you know, child care and those things, those, those are pretty simple in concept and in theory to arrange. But you really need to talk to your attorney. Like I said, How many times are we going to meet before then? Most of the stuff we do is over the phone. We do zoom, zoom and all that. So I don’t I’m not a big proponent of having to sit in an office and wait around for lawyers or wait around for clients. I just think you can do most of the things digitally now so we can work around a lot of the childcare issues. But I can’t talk to you while your 13 year old is running in and out of the house, right? That’s part of one of the injunctions. Restraining orders. Don’t discuss the litigation, right? Well, you, you know, you’d be surprised. Many people call me and they’re just

Andrea Jones  15:05

their kid is in the car.

Justin Sisemore  15:07

They’re doing life. Is that the kid? If they realize right there, yeah, we have, I’ve had spouses be on the call. I’m like, No, we got to have confidentiality. We need to have separation from

Andrea Jones  15:20

we had the lady actually call, I think office answered, and she had the kids just pick the kids up from from school, kids in a car, and wanted to talk to you or Ashley, like, please take the kids home, find a babysitter, and then if you want to lay out the entire case, we’re like, please don’t

Justin Sisemore  15:35

and judge my reaction. Like, I’m like, we were like, that sounds crazy. Why would you do that? Well, you’ve you’ve been through litigation before. You’re still asking questions about what a temporary restraining order is. I’m already presuming that you know that correct, but that’s just not the reality. I mean, the other thing about your friends giving a suggestion on a lawyer, they may have had a case nine years ago, and they have Bubba saved in their cell phone. Do some homework, and you don’t have a lot of time to do it, Bubba, you know

Mary Maloney  16:01

so well. I think that all goes back to the fact that you know you really want to act quickly, and of course, you really want to find a good attorney, which is how we’re going to kind of wrap up the podcast. But before we get into that, I do want to talk about the documents, the things that you really want to collect in those early stages after you’ve been served, and you should collect those right away, because, again, safes can be removed, you know, get locked out of financial accounts and things like that. So if you could speak to that,

Justin Sisemore  16:30

yeah, I mean, I can. I don’t want to overstate this, but I can probably do 90% of a case with bank accounts, credit card statements and an inventory on the property side. Now that doesn’t mean you know, if you’re doing valuations of businesses that, you know, we don’t use all that information. Obviously we do, but the majority of households have, you know, a house, some retirement, a few bank accounts, you know, a couple cars, some credit card debt and whatnot. That’s, that’s just kind of your typical white picket fence household. So what I’m looking for is bank statements that you don’t know, that you bank at, okay? And so when you’re going around the house and you see something from Wells Fargo, and you bank at Chase, you don’t even know what that account is, and that may be something in the future that you may want to know what it is. Okay? So I’m looking for mail. I’m not necessarily telling you to go rip open every piece of mail.

Andrea Jones  17:24

You don’t open a mail because if you’ve got

Justin Sisemore  17:26

with your spouse, there’s a little leeway, but, but what you want to be careful of is you want to make sure that you’re taking pictures and you’re you’re categorizing the stuff in the house. You’re not going to have a list and an Excel spreadsheet about every spoon that’s in the house. But you can go around and you can literally take your iPhone and do a scan and sweep of the house. You can photograph each room. You can go and look at all the documents that you have your hands on. You can see what passwords are on the computer, because if the computer’s out, you’ve got access to it. It’s all fair in love and war. So you know that time, that timetable, hopefully before you go through this. And you know, I’m doing estate planning right now, I think it’s just critical, whether you’re looking at divorce or whether you’re just saying, hey, if I kick the bucket tomorrow, what’s going to happen to my stuff? Where does it go? Do are my are the account beneficiaries designated properly. So this is not just divorce training. This is life training, and I’m doing it right now. And it’s, it’s, candidly, they’re giving me deadlines because of year end. So I know what these deadlines feel like, and I’ve got a month to go. You guys have, like, 14 days, so it just hits really fast, and you just have to be, you have to be on top of it.

Andrea Jones  18:39

That’s, that’s why I said earlier, when you feel it’s coming, don’t wait. I mean, like if you feel the marriage is on the rocks, unless you get blindsided, but if you feel it’s not doing so well, do your homework now and then. And I did. I took pictures of things that like I’ve never seen that before, and it becomes valuable later. And I didn’t even know at that point, do I need it? Do I ever need it? But again, when you go down this path, get prepared and take pictures and do all those things, because then, like you said, the safe is gone, the documents are gone. And how do I prove that I ever saw an account with Merrill Lynch that never seen before? How do I prove that if it wasn’t there anymore?

Justin Sisemore  19:11

Well, Mary, you know that, like we’ve talked about discovery before, but you know, Discovery takes time. In a case you’re not going to get discoverable documents, which is like your request for production to produce bank statements or credit card statements. You’re not going to get that early on. Okay, so when you’re going in a temporary orders hearing in 14 days and so and so says who’s made a million dollars last year says they’re now making zero you. It’s your word against theirs. Okay? So they’re ordered to bring their financial statements. They’re ordered to do an income and expense statement based on the local rules in Tarrant County, for example, but they show up and then they’re like, sorry, I didn’t bring that, or there’s big gaps in the banks, bank accounts. So that’s what I’m looking for. You know, my favorite client is one that comes in says, Hey, here’s, I’ve logged into all this. Here’s the last year’s bank statement. Here’s the last year’s credit card statements. This is at least our active accounts that we’re working through. But you know, some people just plan for divorce or separate their finances all the way through. So if you’ve had no access to that information, don’t expect to gather that very quickly and so, but the courts got to make decisions very quickly on how you’re going to live and how much they’re going to give you. So if you can gather that information. It’s really, really crazy

Andrea Jones  20:22

again, the emotional thing comes, comes at that point, because blindsided or not, there is this I felt that too, this paralysis. You feel like I can’t do I know I have to do this, but I just emotionally cannot get this done. That’s why I said earlier. Get some help. Have a good friend you trust, or somebody that can get the stuff help you with that your best friend or whatever to help you. This is what the attorney needs. this inventory and appraisement that you have to do like, which is this big form, you have to fill out expenses and all that stuff that’s overwhelming for anybody, overwhelming to who digs down their life, unless you have a budget. And you know everything, most people I know don’t have that right? So now you get to get all that stuff together. And if you are feeling, feeling you can’t do it. Have somebody you really trust that can help you and really put it together to in a form that the attorney can work with. Don’t bombard the attorney with 50,000 text messages and 50,000 emails. The most attorney, if it’s a good attorney, will tell you what you need at the very beginning and get that together and as soon as possible.

Mary Maloney  21:17

Okay, well, this kind of brings us to the last, or the end of our last part of our podcast, which is critical, is finding a good divorce lawyer. So Justin, can you weigh in on what qualifies someone as a good attorney and how to go about finding someone? Andrea was saying, it helps to ask friends. But, you know, maybe they talked to Bubba nine years ago.

Justin Sisemore  21:17

Yeah. And you know, Mary, a lot of this too, is it has to deal with platforms. So like, if, when we’re looking at financial platforms, JP, Morgan, Wells, Fargo, Raymond James, you know, they have really good financial platforms that do a lot of linking of your portfolio, or, you know, your credit card statements and whatnot. A lot of people don’t even know how to use that. So you know, especially if you’re not even thinking about divorce or just estate planning in general, it’s really nice to go and meet with a financial advisor and link up those accounts so that if something does happen to you, a, you’ve looked at your designated beneficiaries, but B, you have one kind of dashboard, if you will, to see all this information. It’s just, it’s really helpful to the attorney. And you know, the visibility and transparency of those platforms differs based on the size of the bank and the quality of the investor or the investment manager. So those we utilize those people a lot in those platforms a lot as well.

Andrea Jones  22:34

Just always be somebody that recently or a friend recently, not Bubba nine years ago.

Mary Maloney  22:40

Bubba’s a great guy.

Justin Sisemore  22:41

Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about, you know, that question a little bit, because it sounds self serving when an attorney sits up here and says, Well, I’ve got all the stars and I’ve got this and that, I will tell you that to me, the best Relational Approach to attorney client relationship is really a conversation. So in the consults, the reason I do paid paid consults again is because I like to really have a client that comes in that’s serious about the consult that’s prepared, and they know that my time is critical, their time is critical, and we both set up for that. Okay, it’s also why I don’t do a lot of in person anymore. It’s so much better for people that can sit at their desks, they have access to their own computer, they’re not in my office scrolling through their phone. There’s just a lot of value add to that. So you know, when you’re picking an attorney, like, just raw out of the gate, clearly, like, there’s Google reviews, but to Andrea’s point, like 70% I think you said are dissatisfied with their attorney.

Andrea Jones  23:43

I think 73% of people say they will not refer their attorney because they didn’t have an experience. Horrible. That’s horrible. We get a lot of referrals, which speaks to your firm. But, yeah,

Justin Sisemore  23:55

but, but, but to that point so like, when you when I look at, like accounting, for example, I’m not, like, super stoked about paying my accountant to go tell me I owe the government a bunch of money, right? And in divorce litigation, and really, in any litigation, any kind of person that’s been through litigation, unless you’re a big company and you’re using litigation as a tool to move the needle for some asset acquisition, it’s really stressful, it’s costly, it’s time consuming. I don’t know too many people that just love dealing with attorneys. I hate that, but I also understand it, because I’ve consumed litigation on businesses that I’ve run before,

Andrea Jones  24:29

and there are lots of black sheeps out there,

Justin Sisemore  24:30

yeah. And I also, like, I don’t like to work with clients that don’t respect and like to work and engage back and forth. It’s really a full on process. And I’ve worked with, like, really close friends and their wives and husbands and various people like that that are in my close circle. And you know, it’s stressful, and it can become that person, can become somebody different. So I think it’s really critical at the beginning stages a do your homework on Google. But. Really read the context of those reviews, see how spaced out they are. You know, I see these firms that have 1000 reviews in family law. I’ve got like 100 I think more than how do

Andrea Jones  25:10

you have hundreds?

Justin Sisemore  25:11

But Andrea has been trying to get that number up, because the Google likes that, I guess. You know, it’s kind of hard to call a client say, hey, hey, I know your divorce is over with, but can you go in and review me? Right? And, you know, we’ve tried everything. We’ve tried sending Starbucks cards. And

Andrea Jones  25:25

what is, the thing is, though, the thing we get to remember, most people review somebody when they’re pissed off, right when? If I have good service, I kind of assume it’s good service. People are much faster in reviewing somebody when they’re upset. So to get a client that was actually happy to review is kind of and plus, at that point, they’re like, I’m done with that. I don’t want to ever talk about this again, and I don’t want to review. So we’re trying to get people now in the process, to give a review. But, yeah,

Justin Sisemore  25:49

but I mean, I look at, like, I look at some firms that have been on the map for like, three and four years, and they have 1000s of them. I don’t want to say that that far, but it may be a situation. Really look at the types of law they practice, you know, if they do personal injury and they pay zero DUI or a criminal case, and they get out the door faster, and they the job gets done, you know? So, so think about the context of what you’re looking at when you’re looking at the reviews. So if it is, if it is divorce litigation, know that we don’t sell puppies. Nobody really wants our services. And when we’re done, they’re kind of like, Man, I’m done with you guys. I really appreciate what you did, but I don’t want to do that anytime soon. So the reviews is a good place to start. I love talking to financial advisors. I like listening to counselors. Your friend base, they’re going to have totally different fact patterns and experiences, because they’ve had a different life and a different husband or different wife, different parents. And I think that’s, you know, it’s certainly helpful. I really like banks, and I don’t even talk to these people, so I don’t really get a whole lot of referrals from these people. I probably should go on a mission to go let them know who we are, but, but it is nice to look at your inner circle of what you do and who’s experienced similar things in that regard, and look at socioeconomic class. I mean, you know, I tell people all the time, I think we’re very middle tier as far as cost goes. Some people don’t agree with that. Some people think we’re expensive. Some people think we’re cheap. But if you’ve got, you know, a firm that’s quoting the retainer of $50,000 or whatever up front, and you don’t know why or where, and you have, you know, 10,000 bucks to your name, do some shopping like, it’s not rocket science. There’s, there’s definitely critical points in a case that require larger ticket retainers. I don’t like that for a lot of reasons that I’m not going to get into now. But, but look at the, look at the, you know, the who, what, when, where and why, of what they’re going to do in the short term. They should be able to lay out the temporary orders, kind of the costs of that, the structure of that, you should be able to get some feedback. How many cases have they done? Don’t ask questions like, How long have they been in practice? My biggest pet peeve of lawyers is they go, Well, I’ve been practicing law 20 years. I’m like, Yeah, this person’s been doing it too, and they lap you. So don’t just get stuck in the general mindset. It really needs to be good communication. They need to be responsive, they need to be punctual. And you know, that goes into the just the initial finding, and we’re going to get into what happens while you’re in the course of litigation later, but that’s the initial finding of the attorney. Reviews wise, I do think that in order to get peer reviews and to stay recognized things like Super Lawyers, you can’t just jump into that thing. I know people think lawyers just run around flashing money to buy reviews, but you they do have criteria, and usually even if you know they’re getting their buddies to vote for them, or whatever. They’re taking the time to do that. And then oftentimes, people, you know, behind closed doors, just won’t do it. They won’t review another attorney if they don’t like them, even if they’re being called upon to ask for it. So don’t just discount those reviews. And then, you know, I think proximity to where you are, you’re not going to be able to be able to get a lot of feedback from judges and whatnot. But I think other lawyers in other spaces are a great, great resource and tool, and you know, you’re not going to have a whole lot of time, and you’re going to be very confused about information overload. And so

Andrea Jones  29:18

I think that’s, that’s what I would say in finding an attorney, I would having a consultation. To me is like dating somebody, because I’m have a conversation with the person, or meet and greet, like when you go dating, because I’m going to have a feel for the person, and I want to make sure that they listen to me, not bombard me and throw up on me with all kinds of legal terms. Because I don’t understand those legal terms, unless you’ve been through it five times, you will not understand me. Even working for you, still have questions about certain things, and sometimes you say something, it’s like, what does that mean? Never heard it before. So even though I’ve been in this industry for a long time, so I think talk to somebody, get a feel for the person. Feel whether they’re honest with you, whether they actually looked at your case, or whether they just give you a standard answer. We have people calling. Saying, Why would I have a consultation for you to just tell me whether you can take my case, and many consultations out there are like that, or we can take your case no matter what you have, they don’t even listen to your entire case. You don’t lay out your case. So that’s a, that’s a for me, that would be a super red flag when they don’t listen to me and then communication. Because I would, I would ask the question, How fast do you respond to me if I have a question? So of course, the attorney is not only handling your case. There’s going to be other cases, but if I can get a guideline, if I send you an email or I talk to you or I call you, how long will it take for you to get back to me and have a solid answer? If they say 24 hours, 48 hours, I think that’s you need to have. When you understand what their priorities are. They might say some that’s not true, but I can at least ask that question, and then I would also find out what kind of technology they’re using, how many people are in this office. Because if I have the one man show there, and he works by himself and doesn’t even have a paralegal or one attorney and one paralegal, and he’s desperate for work, chances are I’m not going to get my stuff answered really fast. And technology. Are they on top of everything that’s out there? Are they using a chat on the website? Are they, you can see that on the website, are they giving any information, also, what you said earlier, are they, besides technology? Are they giving me good information? How much my case potentially can cost people, quote, when we have the auto idea, oh, three and a half thousand to get started. What does that mean to get started? How long will that last me? Are you going to come back and ask me for another $30,000 the next year? People do that. They just get you into the door with this lower retainer. We get this all time. The guy across the street is charging me $5,000 and you do seven and a half. Okay, but did he listen to your case? Did he ask you how much property you have, how many kids you have, all those things. So there’s, I think you get a lot of information in the first in the first contact with an attorney, and then go somewhere else and talk to somebody else,

Justin Sisemore  31:50

yeah. I mean, I’m like, shot shop. It okay? Because if, if we do a consult, and I, I believe we, I do it as well as I think I do, which sounds arrogant, I promise you, I’m not. But I’ve done a lot, and I’ve worked with a lot of people. If somebody does it better, and you feel like there’s a better relationship, I promise you, you probably need to go with a little bit of your gut there, right. By the same token, if you I’ve talked a million miles a minute, and we’ve got a very limited window to get questions answered. So if you need some help with something. Don’t hesitate to schedule another consult, right? Even

Justin Sisemore  32:24

prepare

Andrea Jones  32:24

prepare yourself, because, I mean, on your website, we put so much information out there already for people to read, like the blog, there’s so much if you can, there’s a search. You can say, being served. You can you can ask about divorce process. You can put it do a lot of research, like you said, come prepared. Read all that stuff, and then make a list of questions you have, and then when they get on the phone with you or Ashley, and then they talk, then then I have more detailed information and and then the conversation is going to be much better, because I kind of like did my homework already. And then I can then asking the detailed question. Then I can see, is he was blowing hot air, or is he actually answer me my questions. What does this mean? What does that mean? So you need to be prepared.

Justin Sisemore  33:04

And I tell people in almost every consult, I’m going to answer most of your questions before you ask them. And that sounds a little bit arrogant. Again, it’s not. It is. I have a very structured way I do my consults. Okay? So when you have your list of questions, don’t just be ready to fire off the question. Listen to the listen to the attorney when you’re going through it, because they’re going to guide you. A good attorney that knows what they’re doing is going to guide you down the consult process and answer way more questions throughout the course than you even thought of by the same token. If they are talking in legalese or too fast or something, there’s no dumb question. It is a business interview. So raise we say. Andrea says it’s our team all the time. Raise your hand if you got a problem, raise your hand. It’s the same thing in the consult. Just stop. Take a breath. It’s not like, if you’re going four minutes over, like we’re doing on this podcast, that the world is going to come to an end, and if they need to reschedule you, or you need additional follow up, because the case is more complex, don’t hesitate to do that, because 200 bucks or whatever. Is not 20,000 or 30,000 and it’s not a year of your time. And I rather paid a 200 and then know whether this person like that’s why they didn’t explain a good example. I’d rather pay the 200 and know whether this is going to be a good match, then hire and make a comparison to somebody else. Now I might have spent $400 but then I have a good feeling that this is the right person for me, instead of trying to save the 200 at the front or even maybe two consultations to get all my questions answered and then end up with an attorney that is not responsive or is not skilled enough, or is just blowing hot air or whatever, not giving me all the information doesn’t lay out the process is shooting from the hip. I don’t want that doesn’t mean just you see a life on the line. So it’s gonna cost you some money to find the right one, I think, in going around and doing the research. But it’s necessary.

Mary Maloney  34:46

Yeah, definitely worth it. So kind of, as we wrap up here, there’s a couple of things that you had said, you know that you want a client, that you’d like the clients that are invested as much in the process as the attorney is, so as the. Client prepares for the consult with you, which I should also, I think it’s also important to point out again, that when you do a consult, it’s case specific. It’s not just like, oh, you know, we’re gonna decide, decide whether or not we want to do business with you. Now it’s you guys look into their case before you have that consultation. But kind of in closing, any thoughts on how a client should prepare for that initial consultation with you to get the most out of it?

Justin Sisemore  35:28

Yeah, I mean, I feel like, like I said, I feel like I drive a lot of the consults, so I don’t, I don’t want clients to, I oftentimes tell them, you don’t need to write anything down. We’re going to help you through this time and time again. You don’t need to memorize everything I’m saying. We’re gonna just kind of go broad stroke on what the process looks like, but I need to dissect what the 50,000 foot view, or 30,000 foot view of your estate looks like, or the kid issues, and I’ll get to those points as I’m going down. The main thing that I’m looking for when I’m doing the consult and kind of an answer to your question, but I am driving the consult. Is that if I ask you, how old is your child, and you start in on all this other stuff, right? And I that keeps happening over and over again, I’m I’m gauging you, and you’re gauging me, right? I’m looking at, can we make progress with this person so? Or will they listen? Or do they just have some action item agenda that they’re they’re hell bent on because, you know, you needed a good attorney to lead you. And so if, if in the consult, you have some degree of preparation, ie, you know what the main big ticket items are, that are your really frustration points. You kind of know what your expectations are with respect to, do you want primary conservatorship? Do you want to live in the house? Those, those questions will broad stroke. It will broad stroke. The answers to those, I’m not going to give you finite legal advice without seeing inventories and timelines and doing the work to work it up, but I can tell you within a relative degree of certainty what most courts would do given the fact pattern that you’ve given me, and then we’ll dive into it deeper. So I think just really having a clear understanding of what it is that you want, and does the punishment fit the crime, or does the fact pattern fit the case that you’re looking for? And so when you come in and say, I want him to have no access or supervised access, immediately, I’m going, Okay, we’ll get to that in just second as an example. But tell me kind of what issues you’re having, and then if you start in, well, he takes the child to McDonald’s and all that stuff. And, you know, we’re probably not gonna ever get on the same page about relief and whatnot. And so I may try to steer you into some directions that you will feel like this isn’t my person, and that’s by design. So I would say the biggest thing is just kind of getting, getting your summary of your thoughts, making sure you you don’t have, you know, your boss coming in, or your kids coming in, thinking about your schedule, and making that 30 minutes really impactful. And then if we have to refer to something that, you know, I’m going to ask, I’m going to ask kind of evaluation of your house. I’m going to ask things about, you know, do you have any retirement accounts? You know, where your bank statements are? You know, have just some general understanding of your life. But I’m going to wrap that. I’m going to really wrap that up anyway. Okay, so don’t, don’t go in with just too much thought process into what do I need to bring it’s just really having the patience and the listening and the timing. And, you know, I’ve had people show up wasted, yeah, don’t do that, you know? So it’s just not a good thing. Yeah, it’s just use common sense for the most part.

Andrea Jones  38:29

And you have turned, and that’s what I always like, that you have turned people away for a person, for personality, because it’s not a match, because they don’t listen, right? They don’t listen, they know everything better. They don’t have a legal, legal degree, good, but they think they know everything better. That might not be the right client and other people too. And you said this case, like you said this example you gave, there’s lots of issues with the kids, and I want a modification. And the only issue you have is that they don’t feed the kid the same stuff that you won’t feed the kid. That is not grounds for anything. And you would spend 1000s of dollars to break out you turn them away. And I think that’s that’s also when you look for an attorney. Get a feel for that too. Are they desperate for business that they are yes Sayers on the phone they just want to bring you in, or are they actually discussing your case with you and potentially saying, Ah, this might not work. That’s also a good sign that they really that they listen to you.

Mary Maloney  39:13

Yeah, you want them to be honest with you on it too. And I know that’s something that you’re passionate about, yeah,

Andrea Jones  39:17

but it’s not everybody. There’s people don’t want to Yes,

Mary Maloney  39:21

 not always a good thing. So any final thoughts on this topic regarding what you should do immediately after you’ve been served,

Justin Sisemore  39:30

not on the service piece, but I would say that if you’re in a consult and the attorney is kind of steering you away from litigation or saying that they’re not the they’re not the right fit, don’t be mad about that. Okay, there are plenty of attorneys who will take your money and plenty of attorneys who will file a case. So really good, qualified attorneys will analyze a case, and we can do it in much shorter time period than you can imagine. So what I would suggest is, if the attorney is saying it’s not the right time, or we may not be the right fit, don’t. Take that as just I wasted my money on a consult. I hear that sometimes that people are just like, well, you know, I paid money for this consult and they wouldn’t take my my case. Well, good. That may mean you don’t have one, or it may mean that they’ve just saved you from yourself in that relationship, and it’s not going to go well, and you’re going to spend a bunch of money on somebody you don’t like. So really be cognizant the fact that really good attorneys have hearts, and they’re good business people. They’re not all great. And, you know, you just really got to do your homework.

Andrea Jones  40:29

And I would, I would add to when you get served, one important thing is take care of yourself. I mean, be prepared for emotional turmoil, no matter how strong you are as a male or female your marriage, no matter how long it was you love that person at some point, and now you’re going to go separate ways. That is the emotional time of your life. Be prepared, and that’s why I say surround yourself with people that love you. Find a counselor that can help you through those stages and work with you from the very beginning, your attorney is not your counselor, and they’re not trained in listening to you all the stuff that’s going on. Have a counselor. Plus it’s too expensive to tell your boy all that stuff. Find a good counselor, surround yourself with people that love you, that can support you and catch you when you fall, because it’s going to happen. Like I said earlier, the rug is pulled underneath your feet, especially for females, so be careful that to not go down to this depressive recluse mode. Yeah, exactly does take care of yourself. Go continue to go to the gym. If you go to the gym, continue to eat healthy, it’s going to be hard time of your life. And then there’s light at the end of the tunnel, but you have to take care of yourself during this process. I think that’s very important.

Mary Maloney  41:29

Yeah, yeah. We talked about that, or in our previous podcast. That’d be a good one to check out.

Justin Sisemore  41:34

Why does an attorney have some health guy on here? Well, there’s a lot of reasons.

Mary Maloney  41:38

Yeah, got to take care of yourself. So if you live in Texas and would like to connect with the Sisemore law firm, you can reach the firm at 817-336-4444, or visit www.lawyerdfw.com thanks so much for listening and have a great day.