The Role of Mediation in Resolving Family Disputes (Ep. 31)

Annoucer 1 – [00:00:00] Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters bring. Welcome to in Your Best Interest, Texas Divorce attorney and entrepreneur, Justin Sisemore of the Sisemore Law Firm.Entrepreneur, Andrea Jones, freelance writer Mary Maloney, and guests. Share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law and living the entrepreneur’s life. Now onto the show,      

Announcer 2 – Not every divorce or child custody case ends up being litigated in court.In fact, if you live in Texas, it’s highly likely you and the other party to the lawsuit will be ordered to go to mediation first. So how does mediation work and when are you better off going to court? Listen into this episode of In Your Best Interest for answers [00:01:00] to these questions and more as the panel takes on the topic of mediation.

Mary – Thanks for joining us for this installment of In Your Best Interest. I’m Mary Maloney, and today, attorney Justin Sis     emore, entrepreneur Andrea Jones and I will shed some light on mediation, what to do to help ensure the process goes smoothly and when to take your case to court instead. So Justin, can you start out by giving kind of a high level overview of what mediation is and how it works in the Texas Family Courts?

Justin – One of the probably biggest aspects that people need to understand about mediation is it’s really their ability and their time to control the outcome of the case. So in Texas, we have several forms of what we call alternative dispute resolution, mediation being one of them. Mediation you’ll see ordered probably, I would say in most cases if, if trial is looming or parties can’t quite figure out how to get to the finish [00:02:00] line.And so what mediation is has somewhat been distorted because I think people need to understand that even if you’re in a contentious case, you still have a mediation component, which is very beneficial and usually resolves the outcome in most divorce cases or child custody cases that we deal with. The reason for that is kind of multifaceted, and we’ll get into that in a minute, but kind of a high level overview is that it creates a binding agreement with a mediator present.That very oftentimes, I would say most, if not all times that I have seen in my career, the courts will uphold the party’s agreement. So even if you have, uh, a situation where two parties reach an agreement and there’s property and children issues, uh, we will use a mediator to come in and just kind of rubber stamp that agreement.To create the binding nature of the binding and irrevocable nature of the agreement. So it’s just an alternative dispute resolution that’s generally ordered in most [00:03:00] cases to resolve the case without the necessity of trial. That doesn’t mean that you don’t have court intervention in different areas, but to control the outcome of finality of the case.Mediation is used and also in temporary orders. We’ve used mediators as well.

Mary – So being prepared to go into mediation is critical, and it also involves a lot of legwork work both on the part of the client and the law firm. Can you explain what goes into that preparation and why it’s so important?

Justin – Sure. I think one of the issues that a lot of people face when they go into mediation is by the time they get to mediation, they’re so burned out of having to really go through any more costs or attorney’s fees in the case.And you know, as far as mediation itself is concerned, one of the biggest issues of. Mediation is when to go. It’s not just what you need in preparation, but it’s also the timing of when to go. And the reason that’s significant is because you know some people who are checked out of the marriage or checked out of the [00:04:00] child custody situation or case they have.They tend to want to go to mediation very quickly, and the other party is still facing a lot of emotional issues and they haven’t quite got to the level of let’s negotiate how we’re gonna divide up the property or what the time or rights and duties with the child or children look like. So. The timing piece of it is really critical.If you do it too soon, oftentimes you don’t have all your ducks in a row. You haven’t gotten all the schedules, the inventory, and so the clients get there with their attorneys and if they’re not prepared, you kind of, it’s kind of a fishing expedition and it doesn’t feel like you’re really getting a real mediation because you’re not.So the preparation going into mediation is really just if it’s a divorce case with property, getting your inventories, your schedules, all the account statements, having those really organized, that’s also a time to really do some trial prep in the event that you don’t settle, so that you can look at, if we don’t want to take this deal, what does the other end of the spectrum look like?

You can also mediate part of the issues. You [00:05:00] may not resolve all issues, but but coming prepared into that mediation with. I call it kind of the three door approach to open up that box a little bit to have some options. It really, I, I, I have found, and we have found that getting the clients organized, giving them, uh, kinda what those scenarios look like and really explaining to the clients that, Hey, you know, sometimes you get to mediation and the other party hasn’t even spoken to their attorney.They don’t really have a, a clear cut plan, and so you might feel like you’re wasting. Time because you’re sitting there just giving them information that you’ve already provided. And that’s just the, the natural, uh, outcome of this business sometimes. Lawyers get busy and there’s no excuse to not be prepared for mediation.But lawyers do get busy and some things are emergencies and some things are not emergencies. And while every client is important, you know, if you’ve got a child custody situation that involves an emergency of a child, sometimes that springs up on a Thursday and a mediation that’s on a Friday. You know, some lawyers.They don’t necessarily have the staff and team to be able to [00:06:00] walk through that. And so when the client gets in the door, sometimes that’s the first time they’ve really started to go through this. And so, uh, I think it’s critical to really establish that framework and that timeline for the client, and then give that preparation time in advance of the mediation.And it, and it doesn’t need to be too far in advance, it’s just letting the client know, okay, we’re gonna get there. You’re gonna sit in one room, the, the other party’s gonna sit in the other room. Where you physically go, what happens with the mediator? You know, clients get into that room sometimes, and they have had no explanation whatsoever of what the process looks like.And so I think it’s important to not only talk about what you need, but really just what the process is with your client. And, you know, there’s a lot of time, a lot of downtime in there as well. So, you know, just sitting there and watching the paint dry in my opinion, is not the best use of the client’s financial resources.So I really like to get the exhibits together and just kinda walk through what the case would look like at a broad stroke level. And, and, and there’s just a lot of options when you have time and you’re sitting there, one-on-one with your client for [00:07:00] eight hours.

Andrea – Can you explain? ’cause from a client’s perspective, there’s a lot of documentation, a lot of documents that need to be, can you explain what an inventory is?What discovery means and how that all plays in. ’cause you said the three door option. So when a good preparation for mediation looks like, what are you doing as a client and what are you doing on the lawyer side, I think that would help people.

Justin – Yeah, great question. I think the biggest piece to, I mean the document inventory side,      Attorneys are using these platforms that help generate this information. It’s a 35 to 40 page document. Okay? So in the simplest form what an inventory is, it lists all the accounts. It lists all the liabilities. It lists the nature of the property. When you condense that into a format that’s very readable, number one, and it’s very easy to see at a glance.I kind of, I, I create, uh, what I call kind of a dashboard of the inventory itself, but in its purest form, the inventory explains when certain properties were purchased, the [00:08:00] values or the perceived values of those properties, the liabilities, the account numbers, and it just kinda lays out what your financial piece of your life looks like.Then from there, like I said, we get it in into a concise dashboard and I’ve developed a protocol that allows you to move different assets from uh, one column to the other so that when you move those around, you can see what those percentages look like because some people are numbers people and they get fixated on percentages and other people      Or more just, Hey, I really want this ranch because I love this ranch type of people. So it’s really understanding the motivation behind it. There’s also inheritance that’s involved, contributions that come from family members and other sources. And so it really defines the Com community in separate property on a sworn document.It also lets you know what you don’t know about the estate. So when we go into mediation, there’s a bunch of TBDs or T to be determined. You know, it’s very hard to tell a client, Hey, you need to move forward and this is a good deal. We had a case, a client that [00:09:00] came in yesterday and they have a massive estate.They’ve been working probably six months on reconciliation and you know, nothing’s really been moving in the case per the client’s request. And now all of a sudden it’s, I want to go to mediation. And we said, well. Okay, that’s great. We’re going to, and you know, sorry that the situation didn’t work out with all the work that you put in to trying to reconcile the marriage, but in, in that specific case, what we.Have been kind of front loading the client with is you don’t just dive into mediation like I talked about earlier. Mediation is a process and it’s a process to create dispute resolution. Uh, but there’s a lot of front loading that information. Part of that documentation is the inventory. The other piece to that inventory, Andrea, is when you have a sworn inventory, you’re gonna have values of accounts that come from opposing party.Right. You may not know all the information that goes into that document, so you’re gonna have some question marks. So part of what the inventory does is it lets you know what you don’t [00:10:00] know, number one. And it lets the attorneys know, Hey, here’s the account numbers, here’s the updated values, and we still wanna see the backup information to show what that those accounts are actually still in existence, that those values are accurate.And then it just puts a big picture together of dividing the estate and helping do that. The other and final piece to that inventory that’s critical is if you don’t do an inventory in the case. Number one, it’s very difficult to piecemeal all of the different items that need to go in the decree, and I think that’s where things get left out of a decree.That’s where you see a lot of undivided assets. So once the client sits down with the inventory and combs through it, and then is able to look at the dashboard and compare in a two page kind of summary, Hey, yes, this is everything we have. Or, oh, oops, I forgot this. That, that document is really critical in preparation of the final decree of divorce and the mediated settlement agreement.Oftentimes what we’ll do is we’ll attach the inventory and put h and [00:11:00] w next to it. That lets you know, uh, that you’re really organized going into that process, and it really streamlines the effect of the result.

Mary – So I, I’d love to get both of you to weigh in on this next question. Andrea, you as a former client of Justin’s and Justin, you as a divorce attorney, so what tips do you guys have for clients when it comes to keeping their composure during mediation and then just generally being successful during the mediation process?

Justin – I I, I’ll touch in on, on some of those issues because the mediators themselves are very important to client composure. We have many different personalities in family law. And mediators are the same. They’re no different than the judges. Oftentimes they are previous judges or former judges, and so you really have to try your best to understand the client’s personality type.It’s important to, to have a lot of communication with them. You know, there’s some mediators out there that are very effective at getting to the point very quickly, but they’re not the best at explaining the emotional side [00:12:00] or walking the client through why it’s beneficial to get that result done now so that you’re in control of the situation.Oftentimes, you know, the businesses themselves, there’s a lot of unknown facets that come into that, that that one party does, is not privy to the information. So the first tip I have is really walking through with the client and the client walking through with their attorney. Why are we picking this mediator?Okay. And you know, sometimes you just reach an impasse because two lawyers can’t agree on a specific mediator. They may have had a bad experience with a mediator. I’ve got about three or four, and they shall remain nameless, but I won’t use them mainly because of what I feel is lack of understanding or compassion while in the mediation.The second piece is, you know, the lack of organization. In the mediation, if you have a good mediator, they come with, you know, their laptop and they have, they’ve already uploaded some of this information, so you’re not doing a lot of time waste. And then when they’re going back and forth, you know, clients in mediation, when the mediator’s in the [00:13:00] other room for four hours and you’re sitting there with your attorney, you’re, you, you start to go to that speculation.What are they talking about? What are they plotting on? And, and it’s kind of a natural feeling when it’s your first time in mediation and, you know, a good mediator knows. Which room to be in to get what they need or the agenda they need over the finish line. But unless those things are really explained, you know, I, I feel like the clients, they don’t have a lot of trust in that process, and that’s just a natural tendency when it’s your first time going through that.So getting a fundamental understanding using the right mediator is the. Probably most critical piece in my opinion. And then, you know, having all the information front loaded to that mediator so that when they come in the room, they’re already engaged in some of the conversation about the estate and what’s, what the key points are.I don’t, I don’t try to pirate the first part of the mediation or take over the first piece of the mediation because I think it’s an important time for the mediator. And the [00:14:00] client to really get to know each other a little bit. I would say probably earlier in my career, I wanted to just jump in there and dive in and tell the mediator this is what’s going on in the case and this is what’s gonna happen.And if we don’t do this, we’re outta here. And, you know, I, I found over, over, you know, many years of doing this and a lot of different types of, of cases. If you allow that emotional connection and that trust factor to kick in for a minute, sometimes the lawyers need to slow down and allow that to happen.It, it allows the client to just kind of breathe a little bit easier, and that’s a big piece, uh, because some people just aren’t ready for that yet. I mean, it’s finality while everyone thinks in a divorce case is this is what we want. When it’s really that rubber meets the road day in trial or mediation, it can be very emotionally stressful.So I just think that’s a big piece of it.

Andrea – Yeah. And from a client’s perspective, the last point I think is the most important. It’s, it’s emotionally draining to go in there and, and talk about your kids potentially, or talk about the financial side. So from my perspective, most important is you have to be [00:15:00] prepared and, uh, hopefully your lawyer prepared you for, there’s not gonna be a winner there.You, there’s a, it’s a give and take in mediation. You’re not gonna get everything the way you want it. You have to make a compromise on some things, but the better prepared you are, the better prepared you are with those three doors. Justin talked about like, this is my. Perfect scenario. This is I can live with.And then last one is like, that’s the worst outcome. Then you have a better understanding of which way to go. And again, you’re supposed to agree on something. Don’t fight a mediation over a couch that has a value of $300 and spend whatever so many hours on the, you have to try to detach yourself from a few things and see what’s best for your kids.What’s best financially for you? I think that’s the, the better prepared you are. And then the other thing is don’t sit. You’re not not supposed to, don’t sit in a room with the other party. You’re gonna be in two different rooms and you don’t even have to see the other party. And if you are emotionally drained still because maybe you live with a narcissist or afraid to see him or get, uh, emotionally upset when you see the other party for whatever reason, just try to [00:16:00] avoid having those run-ins at the office.And you can tell. Your lawyer and that you don’t wanna see the other person. So I think that helps some people not to go down that path.

Justin – Yeah, that’s a really good point too, because I, I, that, that again goes to the explanation by the attorney or by your attorney in the process is, you know, some people actually want to sit in the same room or they think they wanna sit in the same room so they can, and, and oftentimes it’s the person that’s trying to control the situation and the other party is like, eh, I don’t know if I really wanna sit in here and talk about and rehash all these issues that you perceive that you’re correct on.Right. So I think it’s important to, to flesh that out. And, you know, the, the good mediators are also very good about if they need to bring the parties into the room together. They will generally vet that out privately, uh, before they do that. And it’s really important to have that sense of trust, to know that when you’re sharing information with the mediator, that they’re not just running in there and playing telephone.When I talked about bad mediators, I. I mean, anybody could take, I want [00:17:00] this. She wants that into the other room and play telephone. That’s not the role of a good mediator, in my opinion. The role of a good mediator is to really explain, uh, the sides of the coin and the risks and the issues, and controlling the outcome.And, you know, we’ve talked about in, in some, several other podcasts that in mediation, no matter how good the outcome is, clients always have buyer’s remorse, right? You’re always second guessing yourself when you wake up the next day. It’s very easy to say, well, you know, I had to do this because if I didn’t, I was gonna spend tens of thousands of dollars.And I felt kind of forced or compelled. That front loading communication of really making the client understand that they’re in control and you can’t be forced to do anything because all you have to do is not sign the, the dotted line. But, you know, people get talked in and pushed into things, and I do understand that and, and how that happens from a financial perspective or a stress perspective, but that’s why it’s really important to talk through those issues with your client before you get [00:18:00] in that room.

Mary – So next question is what tends to be worth fighting for during mediation? And then as an attorney, at what point would you advise your client to not settle and to go to trial? \

Justin – The biggest thing about mediation that I think is misunderstood, most people think, well, if we couldn’t get it resolved before here before this point, because we’ve sent settlement proposals over, and they just won’t accept it.You know, if you do this thing right and you’ve got everything prepared and you’ve gone through the process and you’ve sent your discovery, you’ve got your inventory together, and you’ve got your summary timelines with exhibits for child custody issues, all kind of lined out, and you’ve talked through these issues and concerns and where you’re gonna live and all these things.When you get to mediation, even if you think that the outcome is not gonna work nine times outta 10, it does. And so I just can’t stress enough that. The, the importance of mediation is not just what we can do based on what a court can do, but you can do a lot more things [00:19:00] outside the box in mediation than you can do in a courtroom.And that’s just critical because when you’re dealing with child custody and visitation and access, you know, some courts have a tendency to be kind of one trick ponies, the expanded schedule or whatever that’s. Frequently used, you know, there’s just a lot of protections for the courts at the appellate route.If they stay kind of true to the, some of the generic schedules and those schedules may not work for everybody. You know, we represent pilots and. Various forms of, you know, people that work, 2, 2, 3 schedules, nurses, you know, all over the map. So, so mediation really allows you to carve in or carve out some of those possession and access schedules that a court probably doesn’t have the time to really get into as much and or may just decide now we, this is just not the way I do it.And that’s the judge’s. That’s the judge’s kind of general e modus operandi. So what I think is really important to understand in a child custody perspective in mediation is that even if you don’t think that [00:20:00] you’re gonna get there nine times outta 10, you do. And in a property scenario, you know the case yesterday, for example.That we had, there are, there’s a massive company and it has significant value. And you know, you’re not gonna see courts do a lot of things with what we call secured transactions because they don’t have the authority under the family code to do certain things to secure that transaction. So when I’m trying to guarantee that, or I say guarantee, when I’m trying to secure as much as possible, my client actually getting the money that they say they’re gonna get, you can do.Things in mediation that that a court doesn’t really have the authority or power to do by agreement. And so looking outside of the box and thinking about those three doors, methods and looking at kind of the, what I call like the two week, the two month, two year, and then kind of the finality piece of the outcome of what that looks like with the division of property and the visitation and access and child custody rights and duties provisions.You can get [00:21:00] creative in mediation and that’s really the benefit in addition to controlling the outcome. And you know, the final piece is the binding nature. When you have property and custody, for example, Texas has these alternative dispute resolution opportunities, but you can’t always create binding agreements.And when you have Rule 11 agreements, you know, if you’re a civil attorney in the civil world and you hear, wait, what do you mean they broke a Rule 11 agreement. Or they just revoked it. Well, in our world, the court has to approve it. They have final approval authority. And so where mediation really is, your big strength is oftentimes the mediation itself trumps the court’s ability to go outside the four corners of the agreement or that document.And so they really have to adhere to what the party’s agreements are, and that’s what creates the binding nature of the mediation in and of itself.

Andrea – I found the mediation was, was much more relaxing. Oh, relaxing is probably the wrong word, but it was much more easy [00:22:00] to talk at a table and feel like you can get your reasoning out for certain things you want, and your lawyer can explain things while in the courtroom.You don’t have that time. Mediation is normally much longer than the time you have in front of a judge. And does the judge judge really have the time to read through all the documents and all the documentation and base things on there? There was always a fear that I had, like, is the judge really reading everything?Especially if the case was dragging on for a while. While a mediator can ask for supplement documents and can ask different questions than a judge, I think ever would, and in my divorce, we didn’t settle a mediation. We had to go to the court, but when I was in front of the judge, I said, oh, I wish I would’ve settled and just gave up something because I didn’t feel like the judge was really digging as deep as the mediator did.

Justin – The other thing too that I forgot to touch on is. You know when, when we’re talking about the timing of mediation, when you streamline, uh, the case properly, I may have a preliminary expert report, for example, where we didn’t go spend $30,000 on some expert to go tell us all the [00:23:00] valuation approaches, but they can get a very broad stroke, very high level valuation, done at a much lower cost, and also with documents that need to be an admissible form for trial.Sometimes that involves subpoenas, depositions, a lot, a lot of external work that that goes into a case that if you can streamline and get. The, the level of comfort with values or the accounts, you may not have to go through all the process of getting every, all the evidence in admissible form. So while you know, it feels good to have it all ready to go, when you get into mediation, there’s time post mediation, if you schedule it appropriately where you say, okay, if we don’t settle mediation, we still have a six month runway, so we don’t need to go through.All of the costs and all of the headache of getting all these documents in an evidentiary, admi, admissible form. But we’re ready to do that right after mediation or perhaps you’ve got a situation where. You’re gonna send some more formal discovery, you’re gonna take some depositions to expose [00:24:00] some things in the case that that can impact the division.But we don’t want to go blow up the family and we don’t want to go that route yet. But it, that threat is still there. And if you don’t get a fair deal, you know, I tell people, I, I, I don’t. I don’t bark at all, right? If we’re gonna bite and we’re gonna resolve this at mediation, great. If we’re not gonna resolve it at mediation, there’s no more talking after that.Now, I have had cases obviously settle the day of trial and you know, between the time of mediation and trial. But for the most part, that shifts me into, okay, now we’re at the next and final phase of this case, which is the trial. And that’s a very different mentality than going into a controlled environment where you’re working together to resolve the issues.

Mary – So just kind of along with that same question, you know, Andrea was mentioning earlier that you know, you have to expect that you’re not gonna get everything you want. That there is that give and take. So what really during mediation, really is worth fighting for.     When you’re in that process,

Justin – I think the [00:25:00] biggest piece is understanding, and that’s why I call it the three door methods, and it’s such a simple analogy, but people get very boxed in, and when you get boxed in and you don’t get exactly the way you want it, you shut down in negotiation.     I think really effective negotiators in business dealings or law or whatever else, they come up with different options. And that way they’re not boxed in because you might have 90% of a great deal and that 10% you’re fixed on really frustrates the entire intent of the deal, and you shut down and say, no, I’m not gonna do it.And so a simple example would be, well, if I don’t have this Tuesday visitation from here to here, I’m not gonna do all these rights and duties and I’m not gonna do this exchange point, and I’m not gonna do the underlying foundational nature of the custody agreement because I didn’t get this Tuesday from here to here.So, so lining out the situation and the negotiation of what are our absolute no GOs. Okay. Like if we don’t get this, then we’re out. What are those? In the beginning. Okay. And I like to [00:26:00] approach that from the door method because when you’re dealing with property, for example, and one party wants, or both parties want the house and there’s only one house, you can’t saw      it in half.Right? So if we’re looking at different opportunities there to say, okay, now I’ve looked at this other property. This other property actually has good value. We’ve already looked at the financing of this. We know going in that this is an option and an opportunity you can create more doors, if you will, and more opportunities.So I think that’s the probably big do if we’re going do’s and don’ts. And the big don’t is just shutting down early and saying, Hey, this is the only way it’s gonna be. The other big don’t is go in with a, a strategy and I, I wouldn’t even call it a strategy if you’re gonna go back on it, is go in with one outcome or one possible outcome, and then just totally flip it at the 11th hour.Okay? Because. Mediation, if you’re working with a good mediator, is a process and it each little Yes. That you [00:27:00] get. It’s like shin’s art of war. Each little, yes. Or every opposite action and reaction. It’s the same kind of mentality that you hear these little soapbox speeches on, but when you’re getting to some yeses and you get to a lot of yeses.One party eventually will have a no point where they just say no. Right? And so if you’re not knocking out the big ticket items, you know, early on, and then all of a sudden at the tail end you’re trying to knock out these little items and then they just shut down the whole thing, you know, it’s really difficult to get a deal done.So, I mean, I think really good lawyers and really good mediators understand the art of the deal and understand how to get. That party to where they need to be. So, you know, we hear the horror stories. You go in there, you ask for everything in the kitchen sink in the beginning, and it’s nothing that you really want.You spend, you know, five or six hours talking about nothing, and then you switch to the other direction, uh, which is totally a left field from where you were all of the midpoint days. So the don’ts are, you know, don’t go in on unorganized and [00:28:00] don’t go in with this mentality that it’s gonna be your way because there’s another room.And they have risk and they have cost, and they have stress, and they have an attorney, and they’re talking through the same issues in that room that you’re probably talking through, and they’re trying to get you to see the light of why it doesn’t necessarily make sense to go to trial if it doesn’t. If you’ve got good and ethical lawyers, which most people, especially in in our surrounding area, they do a really good job of that.I don’t know that I can say the same for preparation and I don’t know that I can say the same for the communication styles with the attorneys, uh, in advance of the mediation, but I can certainly say that you know, the reason for 90 to 95% of our success is not just us, right? It’s the other attorneys that are working with their clients as well.

Mary – So, as we kinda wrap up here today, when would you say, or when would you tell a client that it’s probably not best to go to mediation?

Justin – I, I think when you have unresolved issues in child custody, substance [00:29:00] issues, physical violence. Where there’s been no counseling, there’s been no treatment in any capacity and really where you haven’t tried things out to see what’s working and or there’s big ticket items that are coming down the pipe, for example, you take another job, you’re moving, you know, you don’t really have a clear plan in place.Place for finances. When you have been married less than 10 years and you know you don’t have a job and there’s no money coming in, you can go there prematurely. So don’t go there prematurely. And also, like we talked about before, when the person or the party’s not emotionally ready. To even talk about the division of property or they don’t have any of their ducks in a row.That’s a don’t go right. The other piece is when you get to a point with somebody that you know, they really are taking advantage of the party as far as financially or emotionally. Sometimes that healing point is the trial in and of itself, and you know, if you know that you’re gonna go into mediation and that you’re asking for supervised [00:30:00] access of the child, for example, I.And the other party is asking for primary custody, and it’s just an absolute, especially in like modifications or, you know, that’s what they’re asking for. I, I can’t say don’t go to mediation, because again, that would imply that 90% rule doesn’t, doesn’t work. But there are circumstances where, you know, the chances of success are far less likely, but most courts in Tarrant County, for example, will order it anyway, right?They’re like, that’s great, you think that, but go there before you take my time. So oftentimes it’s not a choice. You know what I see sometimes too is lawyers scheduling mediation abutting the trial. Okay? And they have a very difficult attorney-client relationship that’s been going on throughout the course of the case.The client’s not, you know, doing what they’re supposed to be doing with respect to the court orders. They’re not following the court orders. And I’ve had this happen with our own clients. Now we have the luxury, I guess if you call it a luxury, but. We have the ability to get out of a case as long as we’ve got enough runway for the client not to be [00:31:00] disrupted in the process.And that’s why I do try to compartmentalize each step of the case so that you don’t go, alright, well we’ve gotten all the way to trial phase mediation’s two weeks before trial. We don’t have a lot of preparation, we don’t have good client communication, and now all of a sudden everybody feels stuck.Client included. That shouldn’t be the feeling a client has when they’re represented by good counsel. And so if there’s not a plan going of action going into it, and you know, it’s tough for a client to hear, hey, the client yesterday, wonderful lady, she’s extremely stressed right now because the situation of her, you know, salvaging the marriage didn’t work out.Well, you know, I preach a lot. That’s why you have to say if you’re going to reconcile at some point, if you’re not reconciled, IE the parties did not non-suit the case, or y’all haven’t reached agreements to abate the case. Timing is very critical in a divorce case. It’s critical in, in the mediation phase of the case, and so I just think it’s absolutely important to, to [00:32:00] consider that the timing and the human beings that are involved when we’re looking at this as a whole.

Mary – So I think that’s a great place to wrap up, you guys. Any final thoughts on mediation that you’d like to share with the listeners?

Justin – No, just really have faith in the process and make sure that you remember when you do a deal, you know, and you wake up the next day and you say your lawyer forced you into this. You know, we’ve got to, we’ve gotta remember you, if you hear it from nobody else but this podcast, it is your choice. So don’t sign that dotted line and expect to wake up the next day and deviate.’cause it oftentimes won’t happen, and most of the times it won’t happen.

Mary – Alright, well if you live in Texas and would like to contact the Sis     emore Law Firm, you can reach the firm at 817-336-4444      or visit visit www.     lawyer     dfw.com. We also invite you to follow the podcast and share it with anybody who might find it helpful.[00:33:00] Thanks so much for listening in and have a great day.

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