The Role of a Divorce Consultant in Navigating Divorce (Ep. 29)

Announcer 1 [00:00:00] Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters. Bring. Welcome to in your Best Interest. Texas divorce attorney and entrepreneur, Justin Sisemore of the Sisemore Law Firm, entrepreneur, Andrea Jones, freelance writer Mary Maloney, and guests. Share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law and living the entrepreneur’s life now onto the show.

Announcer 2: If a physician tells you they recommend you get surgery, your friends will probably tell you to get a second opinion. Well, getting a second opinion during a divorce can be very helpful too. In today’s episode of In Your Best Interest, the panel will discuss the different reasons you may wanna hire an attorney as a divorce consultant and get a second set of [00:01:00] eyes on your divorce or child custody case.

Mary: Thanks for joining us for this installment of In Your Best Interest. I’m Mary Maloney, and today attorney Justin Sisemore, entrepreneur Andrea Jones. And I will discuss how divorce consulting works and when it may make sense to hire an attorney to consult on your case. So Justin, um, acting as a divorce consultant is something that you really enjoy doing along with your regular day job. Of course. As a family law attorney, how did the consulting aspect of your work come about?

Justin – It started kind of in various different formats. And I, I wanna start by saying, I know that divorce consulting sounds like some kind of crazy idea, especially if you don’t have the resources to afford an attorney. Why should you have the resources to, or the thought to even consider the consulting piece? Um, I would say that. A lot of our consults for people that don’t have resources to even engage in this kind of conversation or think about it, a lot of our [00:02:00] consults are in the form of consulting anyway. So I want to unpack kind of what consulting is in a bit. But, but, but mainly what happened to us, uh, several years back, I, I think some of you remember the Texas freeze hit and we had, um, a significant remodel project. And I always try to parallel businesses. You’ve heard on the podcast before. I think a lot of businesses, if you really unpack ’em and go a few layers deep, you can see a lot of similarities. Um, so in, in construction for example, um, I was just kind of the blind leading the blind. They come in and they tear up your entire house and then you’re supposed to. Just trust a bid, trust, the time schedules, um, and you don’t really have a lot of knowledge of what’s going on or what the plan is. And I just was like, man, there’s, there’s gotta be somebody that does this. And in fact, in in construction, there’s plenty of people that do it on the commercial level. Uh, it’s kinda like anything else. If you search for an answer, generally you’ll find that someone else has done [00:03:00] it. And so when I started in down that path, because I was very frustrated with the contractor, it’s very personal. Um, much like in a divorce case, right? You can be frustrated with your attorney, uh, they can be giving you advice that you may not wanna receive, or sometimes it’s bad advice and you need a second opinion. You know, if it’s the, if it’s the former where you’re getting good advice, but there’s just some rift between process, um, and you’re getting billed by your attorney, you’re going through the stress of litigation, much like when you’re building a house, um, with a contractor and you don’t really see eye to eye on some issues and you’re not getting clear points. Sometimes it’s helpful to have somebody that’s very, very neutral and not involved and engaged in the actual, uh, day-to-day tasks of litigation. And so I said, well, thi this is, this kind of sounds like a nice idea. Does anyone do this? And you know, as you get into involved in these heavy hitting cases with big assets, what you find out is yes, of course [00:04:00] there’s people that do consulting work. You, every company has a general counsel that is in the Fortune 500, and there’s a reason for that. The general counsel is not the one who’s going and filing lawsuits. The general counsel is not the one that’s appearing in court. They’re generally the one that is. Managing the flow of, uh, those caseloads and they provide insight to the c-suite executives. If you look at companies and you look at parallels to business, you gotta kind of say, is there a way that you can make this make sense to people and have some, have someone else done it? My answer was absolutely, like I said. And when I started doing this, and granted this is probably at this moment, maybe 5% to 10% of my practice. So it’s not a, it’s not a huge, um, part of my day to day. Um, I do very much enjoy it though because you get the ability to really work with somebody and let them. Let them experience multiple opinions when your opinion is really being valued. [00:05:00] And oftentimes in divorce litigation, unfortunately as a lawyer, your opinion is not always valued. Um, and so it’s, it’s a nice alternative for me as an attorney to be able to. be at a level where A, someone would care what I have to say enough to listen to it, um, and b, you know, be able to really work with a client in a different formatting capacity. The third and final reason, and long story long here is, you know, we live in a tight-knit community, and I think a lot of people worry about having their business on the street. Um, specifically when you’re in the day to day. Parts of lit pieces of litigation, and you f you find out a lot of things about people. So even though Fort Worth is a pretty big city and we do stuff in all over DFW and throughout Texas in, in certain areas. You find that as the, especially in the higher net worth people, the pockets get smaller. Um, and people are afraid to use Sisemore because their kids go to school A or they’re in country club B, right? And so, um, what I was finding is that. As my [00:06:00] network get expanded you know, the, the city actually gets smaller. And so, um, you know, I’ve, I’ve had cases that I’ve turned down that are very, very good divorce cases. I really wanna help people because my kids would get bullied. You know, there’s big names and attached to it, and if you’re on the wrong side of those big names, sometimes you know, the kids don’t, my kids don’t get treated the same way in schools, or they don’t get in the same clubs or cheerleading and all this stuff that, you know, I don’t want my. Career to impact them. So it’s, it’s a way to, it’s a way that I can help friends, people that I’m close with, people that I know through networks, um, and also people that are involved in really contentious litigation that the attorneys can’t seem to lay on the plain because they’ve been arguing or, or disputing things for so long. So that’s just, that’s just kind of how I got into it.

Mary – So can you explain to listeners then what. Divorce Consulting actually is and, and we, we’ve talked before, like the different aspects of their case that you’ll go through with them during the [00:07:00] consultations.

Justin – Yeah. And you know, I keep, I I I, I’m always gonna be a one trick pony in that I believe from a standpoint of litigation, it, it involves in divorce cases, temporary orders, discovery, mediation, trial. In, in, in that. Realm. You’ve also got a pretrial scheduling order to get your deadlines. Those are our key performance indicators or KPIs. I’ll keep saying that a million times, and so each, each one of those steps. You may not need a consulting, you may not need a consulting piece on valuation. Uh, you may need a consulting piece on, Hey, we’re living in the same house. We can’t get a loan right now. We need to know some options of some financial, financial pieces. I. Luckily in my career, in addition to divorce litigation, um, I’ve, I’ve just, I have a really expansive network, um, and I’ve done several businesses and when you get kicked in the teeth a few times and you succeed a few times, you learn, uh, a, some processes and then you learn some people. I’ve had bad accountants. Uh, I’ve had bad dentists, bad [00:08:00] doctors. Uh, I’ve. Represented great people that have done amazing things and people that were great, that aren’t necessarily so great anymore. And, you know, reputations, especially in the surrounding network do matter. Um, and the more you’re out there putting yourself out there and networking, the, the more you learn and the more human beings that you can put in people’s paths. So what I would say to that, to that what consulting really is, uh, in a, in a macro level. Is analyzing kinda the trigger points, right? What are the, what are the pain points that you’re suffering in the case? Are we midstream in the case where we’ve gotten past temporary orders and we’re trying to get to mediation, but you’re that person that says, my wife or my husband will never settle. We’re both so far apart on this one issue. And we both want this one thing. And what I’m big on is, is helping people understand the different boxes that, um, they can look at, and that they don’t need to necessarily be in the box that they put themselves in. So expanding their mindset to different [00:09:00] approaches. And then, you know, when you get in, you get the case. You know, I, my last one was, uh, small, closely held businesses and, you know, it’s a hundred million dollars or so at stake. And in that situation. The wife very easily could have been persuaded by her attorney that we need to go down all these rabbit trails. To, to chase down to the penny. What some, somebody comes up with valuation on all these small, closely held businesses. In that situation, I think, my main contribution to getting that case resolved was letting her know, um, what it looks like to have control of a business and. The fact that she would have none, and who her boss’s boss or her husband’s boss’s boss was who I know well, who is a multi-billionaire, and there ain’t no way that two people disagreeing are going to change the mindset of who has control of those small held, closely held entities. So when you think in that example, outside the box, and you’re thinking about different ways to compensate why for the value of those closely held businesses. Now all of a sudden [00:10:00] we’re looking at different forms of liquidity that are in the estate that are guaranteed. We’re, we’re assessing risk of ownership of the business. We’re not being told by one lawyer who candidly didn’t have a lot of business experience, good lawyer, but not, not really any business experience. So you. And, and also not really willing to even look at other business attorneys or talk to business attorneys or have them come do some of the drafting that is mission critical there. I think, one of the, my criticisms of our profession, um, and I’m sure it happens with doctors and other professions too is that, no one is God’s gift to this business. If you start to think that way and you don’t keep it. Educating yourself and surrounding yourself by people who are experts in their field. You will, you will shortchange your client in some capacity. I mean, I’ve, I, I just went through and ripped through a prenup, uh, last week where the, the party spent a ton of money and I, I mean, a ton of money on this prenup. And I rip through it in three [00:11:00] sentences I, and I kinda speed read these things. I ripped through it in three sentences, and I pulled right to the issue and I said, Hey, what does this mean to you? The client goes, I, we’ve spent a hundred thousand dollars trying to litigate that one sentence. And you know it, I think when you are not in the weeds of business or with a client, what you will find is that you know, it’s really easy to assess issues and pain points from 30,000 feet, right? It’s not easy when you’re in the weeds. Um, and so, you know, I, I think that. As a whole, what the consulting piece, uh, entails is it can be something as simple as the initial consult where we take a look at a simple estate and say, Hey, don’t go down these rabbit trails. ’cause the courts probably aren’t gonna consider much of this. It can be as complex as diving into each of those four parts and actually stepping up with different formats where I, I come in and say, Hey, we need this person to do this. This valuation is wrong or off, I want this person to evaluate it. I can dive all the way into that. Um, if we’re getting the [00:12:00] valuation pieces in child custody proceedings, um, obviously done thousands of cases on that, that scenario. So, hey, you’re asking for this in this court. You know, I can give some assessments or opinions. About what, what I, or how I would litigate it against myself. If I’m, if I’m on your side, what I would push, um, if I think you’re being wrong, hey, this is, this is what the court can consider and say it in a softer manner. So it’s, it’s more receivable. And then a final point to that is you know, I get brought in a lot. Of the questions where, Hey, can you, can you, can you just kind of mediate this for us? Can you, you know, I don’t want you to represent both sides, uh, but can you kind of tell me, um, you know, what are, what are some of the possibilities that happen here? And, and you gotta be real careful there because. You do have conflict of interest generally, and so when I get brought into kind of a dual, a dual role of giving people, um, information, you, you gotta be careful because you’ve got attorney client [00:13:00] privilege information that attorneys may not wanna share, uh, with the other side. You also have, you know, if I’m saying, Hey, take this house versus this piece of retirement, somebody is gonna have a tax consequence. And so there’s, there’s generally conflicts of interest that result, but what I get most frequently is high-end people that are really well versed and no divorce attorney’s gonna teach. Somebody who’s made a hundred million dollars about h how to, how, how the soup was made, or how the cow ate the cabbage. They already know for the most part, what they wanna do. It’s structuring it in a format where, we can look at the tax implications, we can put them with the advisors, we can separate it with secured transactions and secured interests. And they, they just want that added little hey. What could the court consider here on both sides? And so that’s where, you know, if you’re, if you’ve got a duality role there, you can, you can sidestep some of the conflicts of interest that may ordinarily arise by giving advice from previous experience.

Mary – So you, you touched on the fact that obviously there [00:14:00] are multiple attorneys then in these situations. So how do you work with those other attorneys? Because, I mean, I think, I would imagine that that sometimes could get a little sticky.

Justin – Yeah, I mean, you know, I think the biggest thing for attorneys to understand from my role in the consulting piece is I never try to just like a mediator, you know, good mediators, never try to step on an attorney’s advice. Never criticize the, the attorney. I mean, I, I will be the first to admit I’m wrong a lot. Right. But I do have some decent ideas sometimes. And, and you know, if, if you, if you say that with a level of humility that is, that is actually encouraging and, and talking about. How the attorney is doing their job? Well, um, it’s, I mean, I can tell you right now, you can pick up the phone and call these two people. I could give their names on the consulting piece. They were very thankful because, you know, their client was calling them every single day and had a lot of frustration, a lot of pain points. And so the, the attorneys were actually very. Help. You know, they, they thought it was very helpful to take some of that off their plate. And, you know, [00:15:00] the client was very trusting and we actually ended up mending a relationship with an attorney who’s a very good attorney, but he, his bedside manner is. Not the greatest. And, and you know, he probably was tired of listening to, uh, some of the questions, which, you know, we get paid to answer questions, but, sometimes personalities just don’t mesh. And if you are dealing with that over and over and over again and your personalities don’t mesh, I. Sometimes people shut down, sometimes clients are overbearing. So it’s, it’s a good way, in my opinion to, to help curb some of that. And then if, if, you know, we’re just at a point where an attorney’s not being responsive and they’re really doing a bad job. I mean, I, I, I go to the, the attorney, I go to my attorneys, uh, that work for me privately and, and try to rectify and remedy that. Kinda like a performance enhancement plan in a business. You try to remedy it. You give them the door number one and door number two, and then you slam the door if you have to. And we do that with [00:16:00] respect and courtesy. But I have gotten in there where I’m like, man, I. This is bad. And when you see something that’s bad, you know, when you’re a surgeon or a lawyer or a builder or anything, you, you can’t just sit idly by, but you have to understand why it’s bad. You have to ask the important questions, how we got there. You, you can’t just, pile in and, and state a conclusion based on your, two minute interview. And I think that’s, that’s the bus big misconception of consulting. And again, long story, long, you have to understand what your role is in the form of consulting. You can’t just say, I’m a divorce consultant. I mean, I, I don’t even know what that is, right? I’m a consultant on this piece, and here’s what we’re gonna do, and what does success look like? For you, what does that timeline look like for you? What are the costs gonna look like for you? And if we get from here to here, do we deem that a success by this time, this cost, uh, with these instructions? And I’m very clear to lay that out so that it’s not this long drug out. Uh, I’ve just got, I’m just now another attorney that’s [00:17:00] in the mix. I.

Andrea – And I think from a client perspective, like as a client, you don’t understand the process unless you’ve been in it several times. And to have somebody else to look at it or help you make a decision, do we file something else? Do we try to get more information? Do we go to mediation at this point? Do we wait for mediation? Even knowing what mediation is ’cause ’cause the normal person, we all don’t know that we didn’t go to law school. We don’t know those things. And sometimes. Just like a surgeon might give you an advice we don’t know, is that really the right advice? That’s how we started this. So I think the second opinion is super helpful and an attorney should not be, I don’t think an attorney should be worried because if they’re doing a good job, Justin is then just confirming that this is really how this is, and as a client I might not understand. I mean, I learned something, it’s how it’s presented. Justin might present it a different way and then I understand it better. My attorney might have said the exact same thing, but just a different way. So I think it’s, it’s a huge benefit.

Justin – Mary, we, I mean, we do that in our office. Like I, I, I can’t tell you how many times, either myself or one of my [00:18:00] attorneys goes, I just said that, and you said the same thing, and they just like, light bulb went off. And it’s, it’s, it’s sometimes just how it’s received and it’s sometimes timing right and feeling and emotion, and it’s just, it’s just a nice thing to be able to, to help people through, you know, especially if you’re mending a relationship with kids. Uh, and, you know, sometimes a, a lawyer’s. Communication is in the way a little bit, uh, because sometimes lawyers just don’t get along, right? It’s the clients are like, man, we, we just wanna resolve this. And you know, I’ve, I’ve called some lawyer and they tell you to go f yourself and you’re like, wait a minute, I’m calling about a Tuesday exchange point. Like, you know, that’s why I’m pretty hesitant to get on the phone sometimes. ’cause I don’t, I don’t like that to get in the way of what I do, which is, here’s the deal, you don’t like the deal, let’s go to the black robe and let’s get after it.

Andrea – And as a client, I think you’re also afraid to bring something up to your client. I mean, I remember that when I was in my divorce, I had questions, but that I, and I didn’t like certain things, but can I bring this up to my attorney and say this [00:19:00] because is the attorney still representing me the same way after I had some maybe constructive criticism or some questions, and in this case, if I have a consultant, I can bring up my concerns and then I hear, no, this is done the right way. Your concerns are not valid or not important. This is really how we need to do this, or we do do it this way because of this judge or this court, or whatever. Or do I have a concern that needs to be addressed, but it’s not gonna be addressed by me, by a third person, and the client and the con attorney can treat me the same way? I think that’s a big fear. I’ve heard that many times. Can I say to my attorney that I need more communication? Can I actually say that I don’t like this? Or because it’s for us getting divorced or getting modifications done. Child custody, this is our life. And for the attorney, it’s a J O B, it’s their job.So it’s, it’s that, I think sometimes is the fear for many clients, are they really fighting for me? Like this is their own child or is it just another job and I gotta do this because this is my, I get paid for that. That’s a big difference. I think I.

Mary – So [00:20:00] we can kind of dovetail into this other area too, which is you, um, also working as an, an attorney out of jurisdiction, um, whether it be as a divorce consultant, um, because you get a lot of calls, a lot of inquiries from people who aren’t in the Dallas Fort Worth area who want your opinion. So how can you help those people when they’re out of jurisdiction here in Texas?

Justin – The, the jurisdiction piece is, is a very, very important aspect when you’re dealing with venue. Okay, so jurisdiction is state that you’re in. And so obviously I’m licensed in Texas. Uh, that’s the jurisdiction. The venue piece is, is something that, you know, I add value in in various ways from a standpoint of. Different venues have different procedures. Okay. And, you know, you always hear about, we need local counsel because the attorney knows the judge or they understand the policies and procedures. And I definitely agree with that. Okay. In many, many circumstances, [00:21:00] what bothers me is what I’ve seen. You know, we get in these high profile cases, athletes, you know, they, they relocate from, uh, New Jersey to Texas. Right. And you’ve got California, New Jersey, and Brooklyn you know, all involved, right? And so when you have that, what, what, what then happens is. You get kind of this patriarchal or matriarchal, matriarchal lawyer that is the the papa or the mama of the case, right? And then they go hire local counsel and the client thinks, well, I hired this big, big shot, right? And they know everything about strategic direction of a case as a whole. They know the law pretty much backwards and forwards. And they’re really good about getting this case to the finish line. But then local counsell, everything is passed off to local counsel. And in that situation, what can happen, and I’ve seen it happen inside of the last two years. Multiple times is that local counsel is [00:22:00] not as, as probably up to speed on big ticket items as, as maybe the other lawyer is. But the, the tendency is, well, we’re gonna defer to local counsel ’cause it’s easy to pass off the buck. Right? And so it’s not adding. Like, don’t keep adding lawyers. Right? I, I said, don’t, don’t get 30 opinions, right? But get three or four. It’s, it’s always good to have that in medical, right? So if you’re just trying to figure out macro policy where we are in a case, you, we can do some simple consulting in that regard. With the local people, I can help vet, uh, the attorney, um, make sure that, you know, Google reviews, for example, anybody now in today’s age knows that you can have somebody that doesn’t like the pillowcase and they just blast somebody on Google. Well, we’re in family law, right? It’s not, you’re not. Just itching at your fingertips to go write positive reviews for your divorce attorney, right? You’re ready to get away from this whole situation. You don’t wanna [00:23:00] pay ’em. You’re tired of dealing with ’em. So to get a positive review is very challenging. To get a negative review can be something as simple as, I mean, I’ve had cases where, or clients that I don’t even represent, that I’ve done a consult for, I’m. Four and a half or six minutes late because I’m trying to help somebody that was right before them. And you know, they’re just like, it’s like I kicked their firstborn and I’m like, man, you know, I go to doctor’s office, I sometimes sit around for two hours and I’m like, I, I, but I stress out about that four minutes. ’cause people’s time is important, but, but you gotta be able to vet those things because a client doesn’t know they’re, you know, oftentimes they have a referral through a friend or a family member. That went through a totally separate fact pattern. Um, they then go to the Google, the end all, be all right now. Um, and, you know, they read some stuff and, and sometimes they’re turned away from very good lawyers based on if you’ve done this for 20 years, you’re gonna have a few people that disagree with how your, their case went. Uh, to the contrary, if. You’ve only [00:24:00] got four or five or six negative reviews in 20 years and thousands of cases, that’s pretty good, right? So we wanna find out like, what is the substance of those negatives are, is it real? Is it one person that faked their name five times, um, which happens? It, it’s happened to me. Um, we’ve actually, you know, gone so far as to get injunctions against people who’ve done that. And it’s, it’s hard to, in today’s age, really trust information because there’s so much information out there. So what I would say is. If we take this from a standpoint that we’re gonna help vet that in different jurisdictions, specifically when you’re hiring local counsel in addition to the money you’ve already spent on the other attorney, that’s a big piece. Um, for the most part. And I’ll, I’ll wrap that up with, you know, for the most part. The laws aren’t any different, right. Um, the application, well, naturally the laws aren’t different ’cause they’re Texas laws, but the application of the laws can be very different. And the time [00:25:00] at which the, the laws are applied can really significantly change based on which jurisdiction you’re in. Or example you’ve got, you know, let’s just take it to Johnson County versus, uh, San Antonio. San Antonio. You roll into the courtroom. And it’s kind of a free for all. Announce your time. There’s a bunch of different judges. They disperse you into different courtrooms. You don’t know which courts you’re going into. Right. In a temporary orders hearing, unless you have a special set. Uh, you go into, you know, Tarrant County, we have associate courts. You’re gonna be in front of the associate Judge Parker County. You go in there, you’re in front of the district judge No. Right. To de novo appeal. Those are things that you know. The local counsels kind of know those, those things. But, but then when you, you step that further, okay, anybody can read the local rules, but alright, what, what’s gonna happen big picture wise, and I think that gets lost in the minutiae when you have local counsel with, with big ticket lawyer. And there’s also egos. Egos involved. Believe me, lawyers all have egos that I’ve seen.

Mary – Really [00:26:00]

Justin – some, I mean, some of ’em, some of I try not to.

Mary – Uh, so, all right, you guys, let’s, let’s wrap this up. Any final thoughts on the benefits of Divorce Consulting? Um, Andrea, you, you would love to hear you weigh in from your perspective as a former client of Justin’s. Um, and Justin, if you have any other thoughts as well before we wrap up.

Andrea – No, I, I, I would say it’s always a good idea to get the second opinion in a consultation. We said that before you need to, you, you were gonna spend a lot of time with that attorney, and then while you have a case pending and you don’t feel like it’s going the way you want it to go, or you have so many questions or questions are not answered, I think it’s a great opportunity. And the cost is always, you gotta look at the cost and the, and the loss potentially. I mean, friend of mine going into mediation and not knowing where all the money is at, so the attorneys was trying to push her to go to mediation. Do I do this or don’t I do this? And if you look at it, is it, does it make sense maybe to hire somebody for an additional $10,000 to help me navigate [00:27:00] that and help her in that, in that case to, to do it. Or do I follow my lawyer’s advice and go into mediation and potentially don’t find the money or, or have other, uh, ramifications? I think that’s why. Just like a doctor, like we said at the beginning, a second opinion will help you in certain situations. Not for everybody, but I think there are situations where this is a great way to make sure that you going down the wrong, the right path.

Justin – And I’d just like to add, you know, I, I don’t want this to seem super complex in certain situations. There are, you know, we can knock out what we call consulting in a consult, right? So people that have a couple hundred bucks and not 10,000 to bring me into some high, high end case, they sometimes can get the val, the value that they needed just through hearing that in a 30 minute consult. So. There are different levels, there are different cost structures, and I, I really want to try to pin, um, that cost to added value. Most of the, most of the consulting we’ve done has transitioned to, you [00:28:00] know, future business or the, the, the client, you know, I. In situations where the lawyer was bad, they wanna hire us. And you know, I, I’m still pretty hesitant to do that because I feel like my role is a little bit different as a consultant. And, and, and sometimes we’re just at a bandwidth issue. I mean, you catch me in January or February, good luck. Right. Um, you know, so I can’t get to the clients as fast as I need to, uh, to, to command. Um. You know, the value that I, that I demand for our team. So sometimes a consulting piece is how I get around that to be able to help somebody. Um, where I can’t, you know, I can’t go over to court, I can’t do a deposition, I can’t do the discovery. So it allows me to spread myself a little bit, uh, laterally, if you will. Um, it’s not arrogance either, you know, I, I. Remember the pastors that started these churches where they’re broadcasting themselves. It’s like, well, you, you think you’re God’s gift of the church? No, man, you sometimes people just like that person and, and you wanna be able to spread that if they like, if they [00:29:00] like you and they’re receiving you as far as you can and help as many people as you can. It’s not arrogance. And it’s certainly not that the attorneys don’t have the ability to do their job. Um, it’s, it’s to try to help.

Mary – I think that’s a great spot to wrap up you guys. Um, so if you live in Texas, if you have questions about divorce consulting and, and how that may benefit you, um, you can certainly contact the Sisemore Law Firm and you can reach the firm at 8 1 7 3 3 6 4 4 4 4 or visit www.lawyerdfw.com. We also invite you to follow the podcast and share it with friends who might find it helpful. Thanks so much for listening in and have a great day.

Announcer – Thank you for listening to In Your Best Interest with Texas Divorce Attorney and entrepreneur Justin Sisemore. The content presented here is provided for information only and should not be construed as legal, tax, or financial advice. Click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available.