Stepparenting and Blended Families: Tips for Success (Ep. 32)

00:00

Justin – Welcome back, everybody. We’re here talking today about blended families, and I think Andrea, you and I can attest to some of least our experiences in blended families and how that bleeds into family law. We got three great people with different perspectives, and we really want to connect with all of you out there. So thanks for listening. And Mary, kick it off.

Mary Maloney  00:20

Mary – Sure. Hey, I’m Mary Maloney. I’m a freelance writer. And of course, we have Justin Sisemore here, the leader of the gang. He’s a family law attorney in Fort Worth and Andrea Jones, entrepreneur. And Justin is also an entrepreneur as well. But we are talking about step families today. You guys and you both have experience with that personally. So let’s talk a little bit first about what your experiences are personally with step families and how you’ve made it work, and maybe some challenges you’ve guys seen personally.

Justin Sisemore  00:46

Justin – Yeah, so Andrea and I, you know, we met a long time ago, started out kind of an attorney client relationship, and has evolved into, I guess, Mother Son, she tells me when I’m being a bad boy and all that other stuff. But it’s really interesting for me to talk to people about what blended families actually mean, and how in law, specifically in family law, how they can navigate those waters. So Andrea, I just wanted you to kind of talk about your experience, you know, because obviously you got a whole village at your house, what that, what that integration of those kids look like, how you navigated those waters, and then, you know, we’ll kind of touch a little bit on the legalities, and then some of the do’s and don’ts in just a bit. But I just wanted to kind of kick it off with your story, because I think it can inspire some people, specifically single moms, divorcing moms, you know, people that are going through a tough time, and if we can do nothing else here, that’s kind of I hope what we’re what we’re trying to accomplish, is get people over that, that hurdle that they may think is too big.

01:49

Andrea – So yeah, so I, I’m in a blended family. Have been in a blended family for over 16 years. So I got divorced. I had little kids, twins. There were two and a half, and then a eight, nine year old and a 12 year old. So and then I met my husband, and I think, and then we raised six kids together. So he had four kids. I had four kids, so we blended six and in raising six kids, I mean, step parenting is not not easy, and I think looking back, there are a lot of challenges that I wish we wouldn’t have gone down that path. But again, I think when we’re here, we can talk about all those different things that come up. And I made a list of all the things that are that I thought we need to think about and touch on, maybe. So first of all, step parenting is not easy. Anybody tells you out there? Oh, I have kids already and I’m going to be a step parent. It’s not easy. I mean, you really have to. It’s easier said than than be done. You’re dealing with a divorce, potentially dating somebody that had a divorce, or both of you, in our case, both of us, had a divorce, or you’re dealing with somebody had a death of a parent. So that, by itself, is traumatic. Then I one thing I learned a long time ago is, and I think a lot of moms and dads out here need to understand that you’ll never love your step kids the way you love your own kids. And that’s my personal opinion, because I was beating myself up when I was younger, saying, like, how can I How come I cannot love them to the same level I love my own kids. But then somebody told me, you never will. If you’re already a mother, you never will, which put me at ease, you can be fair, but you don’t have to.

Justin Sisemore  03:16

Justin – Let’s talk about this list thing real quick, because I always hear people tell me that they’ve got a list of qualities that they have for their significant other, their spouse, first, like, did your background well first? Did you make a list for your spouse?

03:32

Andrea – No, I did. I wish I would have, I mean, oh, well, there’s a list for you, for your I think there’s a list you have to go down. For the partner. There’s something you have to think about, about the kids.

Justin Sisemore  03:42

Justin –  Did you make a list about me? Like, before you decided to start working with me all these years ago?

03:46

I haven’t got to share that under I think there are certain things that a lot of people don’t think about. Oh, I looking back, I wish I would have thought about that. So I we can talk about all those things, visitation schedules. We were off visitation schedule. So if you have two families, you’re blending, one might have week on week off, the other one might have every weekend. That’s something to consider. The ages of the kids, the genders of the kids. I had twin boys, we brought another boy in. There was the same age into the mix. Easy. I don’t know whether it would have been easy if I had twin girls and brought another girl in, because we girls are like, this is my best friend. You can’t be nobody else’s best friend. So bring in another girl to the mix. Is that easy or not? Do the kids get along in general? What respect do you have for the biological or what respect do the kids have for their biological parents? There might be things. There is your ex, a high conflict ex. There’s another thing they can add to the mix. Are you ready to make compromise? And I think in a blended family, there’s a lot more compromise necessary than in any other family, because you kind of grow together. And here you’re having two families. Are you ready for rejection? That was a big thing for me, because you’re wiping somebody else’s kids butt and cleaning. Up there, whatever. And then they tell you, but you’re not my mom. You can’t tell me shit. That’s what they say. Are you ready for that? Because that’s that was hard for me. Do you do all that stuff for them? And then they basically throw you the middle finger and say, You can’t tell me stuff. Practice makes perfect. Nobody goes into blended family in this perfect from the beginning, praises versus physical touch, that was a big thing, too. As a mama, you give hugs. What do you do with your step kids? Do we give hugs? Do we give hugs in public? That’s a big thing.

Justin Sisemore  05:29

Justin – Did you have any like, Did you notice anything? Because I think culturally, things come into play. And you know, obviously with social media and the polarization that happens with social media, there’s, there seems to be a lot of stereotypes out there. How did you or did you experience any stereotypes, and how did you overcome those? Because I really do feel like, you know, I know deep down, when we’re behind closed doors, we can both tear up and hug each other, because nobody is living this magical life that’s out there on social media, but, but I do feel like you’ve got a pretty decent balance, and I watched the transition throughout the entirety of your case and representation over all of these years, you really kind of came out on top of that. How did, how did the culture play into that, and how did you overcome a lot of those obstacles?

06:13

Andrea – I think that being German as you know, you know, especially we are, we are a little different, and we don’t. We don’t build friendships that easy, but we don’t also, you don’t give a rats ass what you think. We don’t ask, how are you? Because I don’t give a rat’s ass unless I know you how you are. So we ask,

Justin Sisemore  06:31

Justin – how does that work? With our team?

06:32

Andrea – I have a learned. I have evolved. Well, we really more honest. And I think the physical thing was a big thing for me, because in Germany, not they were always naked. Sexuality. So you see your parents naked, you’re you. You grow up in a different culture, and coming to the states, that was a big issue, and now going into a blended family that was a big issue, just because the way I raised my kids, and the way we were around our kids is not necessarily how other people like, like I said, my kids see me naked. Have seen me naked, and I did the same to my parents in the States. That’s not a common thing. Still up to this day, it’s not a common thing. So you gotta, there’s a there’s something that you have to watch out there for. How you have to watch out for that too. Otherwise, I think it helped me to beat have a thicker skin. I think

Justin Sisemore  07:19

Justin – so you were being proactive in thinking about not only the impact for you, but also, you know, somebody else out there, maybe the stepmom, maybe the mom correct, maybe the stepdad, the dad. You’re actually thinking about those things.

07:30

Andrea – I thought because I was a mother myself, I think it’s easier to be a stepparent if you already are a parent. Again, my personal opinion, other people might say it’s not because I’ve already been down that road. But the dangerous thing is, it’s a different road. So just being a parent doesn’t prepare you for being a step parent, but I, but I think we navigated the waters pretty good at a certain degree, but it’s, yeah, it’s still, it’s still not, not that easy.

Justin Sisemore  07:56

Justin – So when you got into, and I don’t want to get too private here, but that’s what we’re going to do. So we’re going to when we got into the to the court setting, I don’t want to step on toes, because there are kids out there and you know, these these things do impact kids, right? And so the private stuff that needs to come out, I’m more interested in learning when you got to court, did you change from day one when you stepped in the office. What was your take on the entire custody situation, the divorce situation? What were you feeling? What were you thinking

08:29

Andrea – for myself?

08:30

Andrea – well, I mean devastation, because, I mean I was married to four kids in the States, four little kids, and now he had to go down the path of divorce family in Germany. So and I was always a business professional, always out there, but it feels like somebody pulls the rug underneath your feet, even though I did everything by myself, now all of a sudden, I had to do it by myself. And for women, I think security is one of the biggest things that we as females want. And even though, if you’re in a marriage and he’s doing his thing and you do your thing when the final plug is pulled, or whatever you call that, when you finally pull the plug and you say, That’s it, it’s still you fall into this big hole. And I was there. I was not, I don’t think I was the best mother at all times, because you emotionally go through so much that it’s hard.

Justin Sisemore  08:30

Justin –  Yes, ma’am,

Justin Sisemore  09:16

Justin – So throughout the course of litigation, you know, obviously we have generally temporary orders. We have things that happen, like discovery, and you’ve got some stranger coming in telling you how you’re going to live your life from a day to day. And then you’ve got a judge making decisions, and then enforcements of those decisions sometimes. So throughout that first scenario with your kids, how do you feel like you’ve evolved through that, and what was the core process like for you?

09:42

Andrea – I think at the beginning, it was the pure fear, and then feeling that I have to defend myself all the time and a lot of guilt like to pull the family apart. And then I think I evolved through time in in realizing this is I never hid from my kids, that I cried because I felt like they need to see. What Mama is going through. So I never hid that, but I hid all the other stuff, more and more from them, anything that has to do with court, because the kids should live their happy lives and be kids, and all the other stuff has to stay away from them, which is not easy, but you have to try it. And looking back, I would have done much, much more, even keeping stuff away from it.

Justin Sisemore  10:18

Justin – And I’m presuming that, when you go from, you know, I don’t presume, because I know you, but when you go from, from court settings, and you go into a situation where, now you know you’ve got a final order and you’re supposed to live life, what was that give me that two to five year window for you? What was that like two to five years after, and how has that evolved into now, getting into the blended portion of your family.

10:43

Andrea – Um, well, it’s still, it’s still such a new thing, because you’re so used to living with somebody, and then all of a sudden you’re single mother with four kids, four little ones, just to find daycare, to to do your daily stuff is is overwhelming. And then I think at some point you evolve. Of some point you got it managed, you You figure figure it out, and then you put yourself back out there, and

Justin Sisemore  11:01

Justin – what about things like because one of the things that comes up a lot in divorce cases is who gets the right to make certain decisions, who has the right to make educational, medical decisions? What’s the proximity we’re going to live from each other? So how did you manage those scenarios in the blended family situation?

11:18

Andrea – Well, I was the one who made all of the decisions that made it easy. But on the other side, there was not all the decisions were not made. So my husband didn’t have all the decisions. So that’s why I say you have when you blend two families. If I can decide everything for my kid, but my partner cannot decide everything, where do we move? You have to be in a certain I had to stay in Tarrant County, for example, where we lived three streets over, is not Tarrant county anymore. I couldn’t buy a house there because I would have been out of Tarrant County. So things like that, you have to consider too. You can’t just pack a business.

Justin Sisemore  11:50

Justin – I want to stop there. Because how, how big of a deal is that geographic area? I mean that I have people call me all the time saying he’s trying to trap me, or she’s trying to trap me. And the geo area, you know, it seems like all I want to do is just move how big a deal was that? How much did we talk about?

12:05

Andrea – Well, we did talk about that. But I think for me, coming from Berlin is a different story. So I grew up in Berlin. Berlin had a wall around Berlin, and people always ask me, Well, how can you live in a city that has a wall around it, but you never saw the wall because the city is so big, yeah. So when you think about Tarrant County, we lived in Tarrant County. That’s big enough. How often, how often do you actually go outside of Tarrant County? Okay, Dallas Fort Worth is a little different, because you have another city there. But how often are you actually move out of the parameters of the city? How often are you going to Collin County? How often are you going to Johnson County? Your life and your stuff is pretty much in a certain area.

Justin Sisemore  12:39

Justin – So what was that proximity that you all lived apart from each other this ballpark,

12:43

Andrea – 35-40 minutes,

12:45

Justin – okay? And did you all ever live closer or further than that throughout the course of your kids going to junior high, college and high school?

12:51

Andrea – No

Justin Sisemore  12:52

Justin – So with respect to the geo area, why did did you feel it was important to to live near or in proximity, so that parents could be involved. Or was that a thing,

13:04

Andrea – the school thing? I mean, like,

Justin Sisemore  13:06

Justin – Did y’all discuss that behind the scenes?

13:08

Andrea – No, my ex was crazy, so we didn’t discuss anything. But looking back, it is important, because the kids play activity, do sports activities, school, and both parents should be involved. So if one moves away, what the other one has no chance of going to a basketball game, football game, going to school activities if you’re too far away?

Justin Sisemore  13:24

Justin – Yeah, and I think that’s massively important for people to understand, is that even when you have like, fundamental differences and you can’t speak, just kind of burying yourself for a little bit in the blended family scenario, is mission critical, because you can’t, you can’t expect parents to both be involved, and one parent is going to, therefore, generally speaking, want to assert their will. And so if you don’t have that kind of dynamic where you’re burying yourself, and that’s one thing I talk to clients about a lot, and I was really proud of you, because you’re very strong willed type A get after it, German or not. You just that’s your personality. And so I just really, really was engaged with you and throughout the course that process, and was really impressed with how you did that right. And can you acknowledge that didn’t happen on day one?

14:11

Andrea – Oh no, I was like, I was, I was Mama Bear, and I want to make all the decisions, and I wanted to have it all my way. And then you realize, yes, even though I did everything before we got divorced, the father is vitally important in the kid’s life. So the father needs to be involved, or vice versa, they need to be involved. And thinking that they don’t need to be involved is so short minded, short sighted. There they need to be. And if they’re not now, because the kid might be two, or when they’re five, they need a daddy. Or when they’re 15, they need the daddy, and the daddy or mama, vice versa. Not being there has such a huge impact on the kids. So I think there’s, there’s never a reason to move far away. I see a friend of mine to have the child lives in Texas. The father lives in New York. How are you going to handle that? Right? This is,

Justin Sisemore  14:54

Justin – yeah, and I think that you know, circumstantially, if it’s an impossibility, you know where somebody’s in the military, there’s you.

Justin Sisemore  14:59

Andrea – you make it work

Justin Sisemore  15:00

Justin – There’s always, you know, I try to always say, Don’t, Don’t speculate and conclude that all or nothing with clients, but, but generally, generally speaking, it’s very challenging to have that dynamic, and you know, with you, like you saw later on in life, where the kids kind of started to drive the boat. Can you talk about, like, how they kind of become a wedge too, when they figure out that two parents are not communicating, and what happens in a blended or co parenting situation? When two parents don’t communicate,

15:25

Andrea –  they run all over you that they run because they go, daddy said, I can do this. And then mommy said, I can do this. And they are smart. I mean, even three years they’re very smart. They play you so hard against each other. So you need to, you need to and and the non talking piece, yes, you need to put yourself behind that, because I think you want to prove I felt like I had to prove myself that I did nothing wrong, I wasn’t cheating, I didn’t do anything wrong. The other side kept telling other stories, and I felt like I have to defend myself. I don’t

Justin Sisemore  15:53

Justin – Did you ever feel like your kids, like would not love you as much? Or did you ever feel like the love they had for you is less because of the involvement of the other parent.

16:03

Andrea – Yeah, if you because you think you have to keep a certain face in front of your kids, you have a certain status, and it’s it’s not true. I mean, all your actions, speak, all the words you can talk all day, kids learn by your actions. They saw me at my lowest, they saw me at my highest. And I think that’s where they all got their drive from. And they understand that there’s roadblocks. They’re going to keep going. Because I didn’t hit them that was not intentional. But looking back, my kids saw me raw, like in on all levels and and I think that might be bad. Psychologists might tell you, don’t do that. I did it because there was no other way, and I did it that way, and my kids came out fine on the other end.

Justin Sisemore  16:39

Justin – And you know, going forward, you actually had an experience where your kids kind of wavered back and forth, even though you were the heavy lifter, right? And I had a case in court last week where this is definitely the case. And I also live this life, right? So my, you know, I think people think that because you’re divorce attorney or something, you have all the answers. The reality is, I think you have the answers because of experience and business or being an attorney or anything else. So the reason I bring that up is because you know when, when a when a mother or a father does all the heavy lifting as I clearly saw you to do. What was that like for you, when the kids were kind of creating the wedge and going back and forth with where they wanted to live or what things they wanted to do that you may not have agreed with.

17:22

Andrea –  It was hurtful, because I thought, like, I’m doing all this stuff, and then you go over there and I love my daddy, and my daddy is so important. I said, dude, who did all that stuff for you, or Daddy needs to be at the football game, who paid for all the crap? Like there was a lot of pride in what I did and the kids, but the kids don’t care. The kids don’t care. And kids are smart. And when I look back now, the twins are now 19, turning 20, they know exactly who did what. There’s nothing to be said. The kids know exactly who did what. There’s no spreadsheet necessary to show them what I did. They saw me day in, day out, take care of them, whatever, and then they saw me do whatever is needed. And they have the opinion about their dad, and I think that’s the that’s one of the things I learned over the years, is there’s nothing you have to say about the other partner or your ex partner. You were in a romantic relationship now you’re not anymore, but you have kids for the rest of your life together, for the rest of your life, not only until they’re 18. You want to be at a wedding, hopefully at their wedding, and you want to both be sitting there without arguing or whatever, when they have kids, you want to be at the delivery room and not sit there and argue and fight, and I’m at that point now

Justin Sisemore  18:26

Justin – you’ll actually, like, raise kids that can think and stuff,

18:28

Andrea – yes, but I mean, that’s that’s not something you think about when you are coming out of the heartbreak of a divorce or marriage ending or relationship. When you don’t think like that, you think me, myself and I and those are my kids, and they’re going to do what I say. No, you can’t. Those are their kids, and those and I always feel like the kids also, even though they now have two households where they live at I think for kids is one, and the better you make that one big family, not there’s two houses, but I’m a kid, and I live in two different houses, but I don’t have two homes. I have one home, and I’m just shifting on because I think that makes it easier for the kids, instead of packing up all your crap and moving it to the other house. And don’t take those pants, because I bought those pants, and Daddy can buy you other pants. I’ve been there done those pants were expensive, and you leave that stupid, like looking back, what does it matter? And if those are the kids favorite pants, let them take it and buy some other pair. It doesn’t matter, but it’s but you you get there later. I don’t think you get there immediately when you’re out of this.

Mary Maloney  19:28

Mary – And I think you guys, we both talked on the podcast before about that. You really want to be in it for that long game, too. Justin, you’ve said that a lot, and you’re like, you’re saying you want to be at the weddings together and things like that. So that’s important, that people don’t expect everything’s going to be perfect right away in these situations.

19:44

Andrea – No, you evolve. I think all the time you evolve.

Justin Sisemore  19:46

Justin – Yeah. I mean, I the one thing we preach from the beginning, and I can start out of the initial consult and just roll it right through temporary orders, roll it through discovery and mediation, you know, which resolves about 90% of our cases, and the way that the. Way that we talk to people about sometimes, your experience without using your name, your example, is an example that many people have gone through. And everyone, when they call me, they feel like they’re the only person on this island that has experienced this stuff. I’m like, No, dude, I’ve heard narcissism 55 times today. I’ve heard that the dad is, you’re never going to understand him. He paints a good picture. He’s gonna come in there, and all of a sudden, wow, the judges. And it’s like, you lived it. We went to court quite a few times. Did the whole scene. So I just, I love the insight from hindsight for you, and I love knowing that, you know, there are people that get through this, and people hearing about how they do that, and it’s not that. And we’re gonna listen to one podcast and have all the answers. But I do think it’s important that we raise decent humans out there, and it’s like, how do we do that? Well, sometimes we’re going to train the adults like Cesar Millan with the dogs, right? So I just, I really enjoyed that story so

Mary Maloney  20:53

Mary – well, another great question, or great thing for people to think about, if they’re getting into a blended family, is, what is the person that your your person that you’re getting involved with, what is their relationship with their ex, who they’re co parenting with? So what can you guys say about that, and what’s your experience been with that?

Justin Sisemore  21:12

Justin – Yeah, that’s from a legal standpoint. That’s a that’s a huge issue. Because, you know, obviously, when you’re hurting, you know, we’ve talked about that before, people just kind of jump into the next relationship, sometimes without really thinking about disciplinary actions. And your list, like the list that you went through, a lot of those questions are very important questions to ask, and sometimes you’ll get the fake answer. But from a court’s perspective, you know, it’s it’s always bio parents first with relationship with their kids. They do not want to be in a situation where, you know, third party is stepping in and stepping on toes and changing that relationship, and you hear, Well, this is your new dad. Like, when I hear that, I mean, you want to see me come unglued on cross examination in the coolest and also the meanest way.

Mary Maloney  21:55

Mary – I would love to see this.

Justin Sisemore  21:56

Justin – That’s some fun when I read that. For somebody like, you know, in my, in my job, we don’t sell puppies, and it’s half the time with your kids and half your money. Hey, thanks for coming to to the firm, and please have a long standing relationship. I really do want that. But the reality is, you’re not really selling puppies and butterflies, right? And cupcakes. So I think that the the idea there, Mary, to your point, is that, or your question is that, if we can get in this mindset that the kids, the org chart is there, mine is God, family, you know, wife, kids, and so on and so on. So, you know, you keep that org chart in place. And I think that really matters, because kids are going to manipulate and some somebody, your ex, is going to do something stupid, say something stupid, gaslight, do all the stuff that’s going to happen. It’s already happened, or you wouldn’t be in the office. But then when you take that a step further and you go, Okay, well, we know all that now, how do we move forward? I think the only way to really do that is really think about this stuff, and that’s why I love doing these podcasts. Like, think about what that ex is, what issues you’re already having before you go jump in and get married, move in, buy a house. I’m like, wait a minute. Why are we doing that just yet? Let’s ask a few of these things. Let’s talk about it.

23:14

Andrea – Yeah, and I think the ex, the ex plays a big role. The ex plays a big role, but it has to be like you said about the kids, is the ex and you, and not the other person. So if I bring another man into my life, or my ex brings another woman into his life, the decisions are still made by the biological parents and have to be made behind closed doors. I can get opinions, but at the end of the day, it’s my kids and and I think a lot of people mix it up, especially we’re both God, and then there’s the husband or the wife, and then they’re the kids. And I think people make mistakes in blended family, God stays there, but then the other parent comes above the kids. And is that in your marital relationship necessary? Yes, but when it comes to your kids, don’t put me in a situation to make a decision between my kids and you guess what? The kid’s always gonna win. I think that’s something the step parent has to understand too. The new step parent can get advice, like I said, but it’s not taken wrong. I hate when I see people early on, like you said, this is your new daddy. No, that’s not your new daddy. And I was the same way, also with my step kids. I’m not the mother so and I will step back every single time the mother is present, that respect has to be there when, when the the mother of and we have a great relationship, the mother of my step kids was, at any event, there was no hugging, kissing, I love you kind of thing. From me to my step kids, when the mother was around, I always took a step back I’m stepmother and they

Justin Sisemore  24:39

Justin – Yeah, that’s like being a decent, normal human.

24:41

Andrea – But a lot of people don’t do that like my the that, like my a lot the wife, the new wife of my ex husband, kissing on the mouth and all the stuff in front of me, and as a mother, oh, don’t do that to me. Gosh, here comes a mama beer. You’re not the mother of my kids. You’re an addition and to take over that role and trying to make decisions and meet. To do it this way? No, hell no, yeah.

Justin Sisemore  25:01

Justin – I mean, the court, look, the courts are not stupid or oblivious to this stuff. They know when some stepparent is coming in there and doing that and creating the wedge. I mean, the surefire way to get somebody out of their life is to do that kind of stuff. And I go in there and just say, hey, Judge, we want the injunction in place keeping kids. Yeah, this lady doesn’t get to show up for the visible Good luck with that relationship. She can’t come stage or house and can’t come to games and whatnot. That doesn’t work out well. And it doesn’t take a whole lot, from the court’s perspective to jump to that solution.

25:32

Andrea –  I do you? Do you do that often? I mean, do you

Justin Sisemore  25:34

Justin – 100% Yeah. I mean, the standard injunctions actually have a 24 hour period, so generally, you’ll see, you know, a parent, unrelated of the opposite sex or same sex, with whom they have an intimate or dated relationship. That’s actually in the standard injunction languages, and so they can’t spend the night, right? And, you know, people try to cheat that, they try to curb that.

25:55

Andrea – good luck with kids – they will talk

25:57

Justin – yeah,

25:57

Andrea – Mommy  had a girlfriend over, a boyfriend over,

Justin Sisemore  26:01

Justin – yeah, and even the nonverbal stuff, right? Like, so, even if you’re not the alienating parent that says, you know, hey, what was going on at your dad’s? Oh, she’s terrible. And, you know, she’s a whore and everything else, right, which I hear daily, the reality is the nonverbal stuff, you know, if you’re just kind of lifting your eyebrows up to the kid or smiling to the child when they’re telling you these stories, they’re going to keep going. And, you know, we see that turn into a whole new can of worms, where they make stuff up, and then all of a sudden you feel like you got to go fire off emotion and hire the Sisemore Firm to go deal with it.

26:32

Andrea – Wedge between you. Yeah,

Justin Sisemore  26:33

Justin –  it’s still He Said, She Said, and there’s no backup, corroborating information. And I, I’m not arrogant, but I’m very proud of what we do. I don’t go into court with stupid arguments. I gotta feel I gotta feel it. I gotta be passionate about it. I’ve gotta be able to cross examine. I’ve gotta be able to offer evidence. And so when people come in with just full of piss and vinegar and fire, it’s like, hold on a minute. Let’s unpack this. We don’t ever represent Jesus. If we did, we’d be out of business. So never met him. Want to one day, but you ain’t, you ain’t him. So that’s that’s kind of where we go with that.

27:04

Andrea – But it’s kind of good to know that the court also takes precautions. There

Justin Sisemore  27:07

Justin – they do

27:07

Andrea – when you have people, step moms and step dad overstepping their authority, that the court actually steps in.

Justin Sisemore  27:13

Justin – And some some judges will do it really quickly and swiftly and harshly, and other judges, it’ll feel like you’re watching the paint dry, and you’re just in this, like, Kumbaya land. And so you really got to know your audience there, too, and know the evidence that you need to put forth.

Mary Maloney  27:28

Mary – So for somebody that’s listening to this, and they’re in a relationship, and they’re, it’s, it’s, they’re falling in love and whatever, and but there’s that ex in the situation. Is there any advice you guys would give for like, any ground rules that you should, you know, discuss with your ex about how they should behave, or your new partner how they should behave, and those kinds of things.

Justin Sisemore  27:50

Justin –  Yeah, I think, I think one of the things I see is that it’s, it’s harder in our business to mold the ex we generally put, you know, very tight restraints around what people can and can’t do, exchange points, who gets to make what decisions, but, but overall, it’s pretty challenging to really change that zebra stripes, which is why they’re your ex. So the bigger picture is, even if you’ve got the bad ex, don’t become the bad ex, right? And so for from my standpoint, with clients, and I hope we’ve bred this culture into our team, and I know that, from what I’ve seen we have it is very much that communication about talking to the client, about how they don’t step into those categories, and sometimes they don’t really realize that, you know, simple things that they’re doing really do have a big impact. So from an ex standpoint, and really, you know, talking to your existing partner, I’ll just give it by way of example. When you’re moving in with somebody, and you haven’t really discussed that with your ex, because you don’t talk to your ex, I like to just kind of take this glass half full approach, which is, hey, I wanted to talk to you about this. I wanted to get your ideas. I call it the who, what, when, where, why, and in law, we call that the direct examination it’s amazing. When you ask people direct examination questions, they actually share some stuff that y’all might not be too far apart. It’s the the cross examination questions, which are the leading questions. This is how you’re going to be, and this is what’s going to happen. And I know you’re going to do this. And the projections and conclusions that people get into and the speculation really leads down a path of this is exactly what I remember you as you tell me how it is. It has to be your way. There’s no communication, and the reciprocation of that communication is going to be exactly the same. They’re going to cut you off. They’re going to call you the B word. They’re going to say that, you know, you’re just, you’re just the controlling person that you are, and there is no communication. So I don’t think it’s that complicated. I think it’s just people put themselves in this box of if I do this, I know what’s going to happen. And I would love to say that we have that skill. I think we’d have superheroes, if that’s okay.

29:59

Andrea – It’s but what would you tell the new ex? I mean, I mean, tell the new partner, like, when you when you move into

Justin Sisemore  30:06

Justin – I wanted to go back on that too, because, like, You did say that, you know, the kids come first, and they do come first, but, but it’s also important. You know, if you’ve lived a life where, and I’ve seen a lot of situations where couples get together for the absolute wrong reasons. Sometimes you know a child is involved before the parties even really know each other. And you know, you’ve got to remember that if you keep an org chart, the adults are the adults. The president of a company is leading the company. You know, it’s, it’s, it’s really similar in personal life. So what I try to do is is talk to them about number one. As a step parent, you need to be a cheerleader, right? There’s a reason why there’s a movie step moms, right? You often feel like inferior. Everything you say is not being reciprocated. And you know, if you take that approach as the as the spouse, right, going into the new relationship with the new person of hey, the kids that come first at all costs. You know what ends up happening is there’s a wedge in that relationship. And I think kids really need to see that stability. They need to know that the parents are in charge. If it’s blended families, the blended family, they can show them signs of love. They can really create an environment that you know, it’s healthy, and maybe your last situation wasn’t healthy. And that doesn’t mean we need to compare and contrast every single situation with your new relationship. It doesn’t need to happen that way. And I feel like, you know, sometimes it’s like, Go Blue team. We’re the new team, and red team was the old team. And you know, oftentimes when you’re entering those blended relationships. That’s all y’all deal with. That’s all you talk about. Is like the new versus the old. And this is the way that they did it, and this is the way that we’re doing it. That’s so much better. And it’s like, Come on, man,

31:50

Andrea – same thing.

Justin Sisemore  31:50

Justin – It’s, we’re all humans. They’re, I mean, I can’t tell you many times people come in both y’all is like, their ex is like, looks the same. They’re saying things that I know that I know that the fact pattern that’s at the timeline is going to be the same, but now all of a sudden they’re so different.

Mary Maloney  32:04

Mary – Yeah,

Justin Sisemore  32:05

Justin –  it’s like, Come on, man, no.

32:07

Andrea – And I think you have to have some ground rules too, I think for the for the new person, like decisions and really talk about that. Because I think I looking back, I wish we would have done some, some blended family coaching. Just have a counselor to help through, because you don’t really talk about all the the tough topics you like, newly in love, or you met the person. Everything is great, but there’s gonna, there are gonna be topics you need to discuss. Like you said, the cheerleader and I, we had this one time. I thought twice, I think where all four step parents sat together and and that was great, because now you see, and we talked about certain things in school and everything else, and that was helpful, because the biological mother and biological father still made the decisions, but the other ones are involved were also there. And I think those ground rules are important, but not everybody does it. I think because you think it’s fine with kids are three, but then let them turn 15, and it’s a whole different game. So

Justin Sisemore  32:59

Justin – and on that point, married to like Andrea brought up a good point. We’re not You’re not skilled. Just because you’re a good human being doesn’t mean that you have skills in knowing how to deal with a blended family. Just because you go to marriage counseling because you’re having some difficulties. I mean, we’ve all got close friends that just recently married, that go through marriage counseling, some people feel like that’s a failure point. It’s like, No, you’re you’re learning a new skill set. This is a whole different language.

33:21

Andrea – It’s a different perspective. Everything. A counselor can give you a different perspective, because if they’re good, they’re neutral, right? They give they listen to both of your opinions, thoughts, whatever. And then they can say, hey. And how can we find a solution here if we ever have and workout solutions when you have a tie or you want to make this, do we take the phone away because it acts, or do we not take the phone away? Because otherwise you have, or you can’t take the phone away because Mommy bought the phone.

33:45

Justin – Yeah,

33:45

Andrea – those situations, and that’s not a fun situation to have, and then the kid’s gonna play you.

Justin Sisemore  33:49

Justin – So to that point too, like it’s that’s why I love those consults that happen before they enter into just going down the path of custody and divorce. I mean, I think people have this misconception that really good lawyers are just blood sucking vultures, because that’s what you that’s what you hear about. Like, I think great lawyers really do want to impact kids in a positive way. I think they want to help their clients grow their business, make some money, and then, you know, have an impact. I mean, I think that’s every business. And so the consult piece, and, you know, the counselor piece, and knowing who to call what counselors are good with older kids, younger kids, blended families, cultures. I mean, those things all matter. And so I love the I love that aspect of the business where I get to do that,

Mary Maloney  34:29

Mary – yeah, well, let’s talk about you’re bringing two families together. So we have two different parents, two different sets of kids. There’s two different types of discipline, parenting styles and things like that. So what kind of conversations should this new couple be having to set themselves up for success?

Justin Sisemore  34:46

Justin – Well, you know, that goes back to what Andrea just said. I can tell you, you know, I’ve got, I’m at that stage of life where we’re kind of entering that second marriage portal, right? And so I see. A lot of blended families. On a personal level, I grew up in a blended family, still living in a blended family. Obviously, we have like, 18 Christmases. So the movie Four Christmases is now 18 on both sides, and my wife’s family has done a very good job of it. You know, every person’s circumstances are different. My mom grew up as a single mom. Things weren’t easy for her, and some of the things that happened were not good, and she persevered through that. And you know, my sister and I both have different kind of outlooks on life, to a degree, and we probably, if you’re uncover it and unpack it, we probably have a lot of the same weaknesses, a lot of the same insecurities. How we deal with that may be a little bit different, but it’s helped mold me in a big way, right? So I don’t ever look back on anybody’s life and say, oh my gosh, you didn’t come from this little Mary Poppins, perfect little situation. In fact, I like people that have grit. I work with people that have grit, and, you know, I deal with people on a daily basis that do, and oftentimes grit is, is formed by these tough circumstances. So from a standpoint of, you know, where do we go? How do we teach how do we how do we deal with these situations going forward? I mean, this is not rocket science. You’ve got to you’ve got to have the reps, you’ve got to screw up, you’ve got to fall. You can’t project, you can’t just expect your lawyer to go in and cook someone’s goat and change your world. It’s not going to happen. You’re going to be disgruntled. And you know, candidly, the court system is not designed to help parent your kids. It’s to really protect kids, and, you know, to really get them out of the middle of these situations. And, you know, I think people view it as well. I just can’t, I hear all the time, my kid really wants to talk to the judge. My kid really wants to talk to the judge. I’m like, why? What? What did you do? What kid in on this planet wants to go talk to a judge, other than maybe it’s judge day and I want to see what it’s like to be a judge. So,

36:59

Andrea –  so I think what we did well is when we when we started dating, we dated, and then we made it very clear that now we have to put the kids together and see whether the kids get along. Not that the kids run the whole thing. But I thought because we had so many kids, it was important to see, can they even get along? Because if they didn’t six kids, eight kids total, but six kids living potentially together, if they didn’t get along to a certain degree, I don’t think we hit our marriage, but have had a chance. It didn’t, and we did that and and it worked well.

Justin Sisemore  37:28

Justin – And now, before you introduce them, like,

37:31

Andrea – six months, eight months, something like that, we took time, yeah, because we, first of all, I wanted to make sure, because I said I’m never going to get married again, so I wanted to make sure that this is the right person for me, first of all, but then, but there’s, it’s a package deal. I have four kids. He has four kids, six together. So we had to make sure that the kids get along. And we did, and they got along. And when you look back now, I think my stepdaughter is more like me than any of my daughters. Sometimes, the way she says and acts and you would not when we walked down the street, you wouldn’t be able to tell this is her stepdaughter. I don’t call him step by so I’m bonus child, but this is a bonus child, and this is the real one, because they all got along. Well, again, you don’t love them the same. You have to accept that, but you can be fair. And I think I was fair the entire time. And we raised six amazing kids in this house, but we had challenges, of course. And

Justin Sisemore  38:19

Justin – what was it your biggest one in your mind, like, as far as did you get the whole Well, I can’t discipline. I can’t do anything.

38:25

Andrea –  Yeah, I did that. Because the good thing was, they were very close. So my step kids, my bonus kids, came every other week. My kids were there every weekend, every other weekend, so we were on and off, so we were not there at the same time, because my husband had a good relationship with his ex. They made all the decisions, which is good, but to a certain degree, the new stepdad  and I felt left out because they made the decisions without including us many times, and that’s not good either. At least say, hey, we had a conversation. This is what’s best for my daughter, best for my son. This is the path you want to go. I have no say, so I’m the step. That’s okay, but don’t be. I was blindsided many times.

Justin Sisemore  39:00

Justin – Did y’all ever have, like, a fundamental, like, large scale disagreement, like, where it was,

39:06

Andrea – oh yeah, punishing the kids, for example, because I always felt, there’s a, there’s a there’s a different level. My kids got punished by him, much stronger than, than, than his kids got ever punished by me, and I wasn’t allowed to.

39:18

Justin – How’d you get past that? I didn’t. I mean, that was a big that was, that was a big argument because, and I think if we would have start, if we did start, and had the ground rules established earlier, it would have been easy, but it kind of like the decision was made once, without us. The other step dad and me involved, and a decision was made again and again and again. So it became status quo, and we just had to live with it, which was not cool. And the kids even at some point, my steps don’t even say, like, oh, I don’t get punished at all. I can do whatever I want to do in this house while my sons felt

Justin Sisemore  39:49

Justin – but y’all had, like, a fundamental blow up disagreement, but you still were able to come back together on other fronts. Is that accurate?

39:55

Andrea – Yeah, yeah.

Justin Sisemore  39:56

Justin – So like, if there, if there are moments, I think that’s a good message to send to, like. You may have one thing that really is the big deal, but it’s not make or break the entire relationship, because you got to do it anyway, right?

40:08

Andrea – For the kids sake. And I think even for especially for the in a second marriage or third marriage, when you blend kids together, they are so desperate now that this works, because they’re already torn from the first one. So I think you got to think, and I think that’s another thing. When you enter another marriage or relationship with kids involved, you got to be sure this is the right this is not jumping ships like, oh, let’s do this for two years and then jump again and jump again. I personally think you shouldn’t be introduced to kids early on. I see people make that mistake all the time, rebound girlfriend, rebound boyfriend, immediately introduced, and then the kids are totally whatever thrown off. Mommy has the sixth boyfriend. Now, Daddy has the eighth girlfriend. Like, what is that that’s not good for kids? And if, and if you enter it, I think you need to be as a person. I had to be sure. Do I really want to is this the person I want to be with? And do I take the package deal of having kids involved

Justin Sisemore  40:58

Justin – and Mary, just from the law, lawyer standpoint, when I hear a client call for their consult and their girlfriend, boyfriend, baby mama, step husband, stepkid, whatever that when the third party wants to get on the phone and tell me what’s going on and how the rubber meets the road, I generally want to shy away from that client relationship, So I think that’s important for people to hear, because that’s a very difficult thing to untrain. It’s been grained in a lot of times. What you’ll have is somebody that really doesn’t take a lot of interest in any of these things, and so they end up kind of going towards that type A personality again, and they’ll usually kind of recluse, and then all of a sudden, these people are supposed to go into court, right, and testify and say what’s happening, but they couldn’t even do it in the consult, because they’re not worthy, according to the new step parent,

Mary Maloney  41:50

Mary – right? Whoa. So good luck. Yeah, good luck. So, okay, any other good conversations to have? So it’s like, if you want to do something advanced, you know, do kind of figure things out ahead of time. We talked a little bit about discipline and be kind of good to get on the same page about that, knowing what your ex, your new partner’s relationship is like with their ex. And you know, another thing is, is how you know, talking about how each of you deals with conflict and challenges and stuff like that that’s happened in the past. So anything that you guys can add on that?

Justin Sisemore  42:24

Justin – Yeah, from a legal standpoint, the big, the big three in our world is generally corporate or corporal punishment. It’s whether they get to use their car and what happens with their cell phone, you know, and kind of where they get to go, I guess, a big four. And so the big, the biggest thing that I try to get people, and the courts try to get people, and I hope other lawyers believe in this, is, let’s, I don’t care what the page is, let’s have a foundational page, like, if, if this child does this, this is going to be how we deal with that. Obviously, there’s a lot of disagreements about corporal punishment. It’s a big issue, big topic. And I think when you’re the step parent, you have to tread. When I say lightly, I mean razor thin lightly, you cannot step into that category, because that’s a very, very quick way to have courts get you out of the equation. By the same token, you got to be able to have discipline. So if one parent is buying the other kid or buying the kid a cell phone, I’ve seen kids like they have go phones, like two phones, they have a car. I had a case last week. Car gets parked in the garage. Dad tries to claim on the stand that it’s not kid’s car. Kid goes 130 miles an hour in that car, wrecks the car, then pops the tires and wants mom to help pay for the tires. That’s last week. Okay? So court setting, do you recall under oath, just rolling through the questions, and you really want to co parent with this woman, yes, yes. And you’re just this great human after you’ve called her the C word, the See you next Tuesday word, the B word and everything else, right? And obviously we laid that out and slow played that so you could get a little bit of drama. But the but from the standpoint of the vehicle, you know, everyone sees your true colors, and when you’re being an idiot, like it’s so much easier to pull that out. And there’s no question why judges are smart enough to see this stuff. They know within five or six questions, just like I do in consults, kind of where this thing is going. We’ll fill in some details, but the broad strokes are already there. So I just think it’s very important to not try to step in there, and don’t try to step on toes. If you’re the step parent, if you’re if you’re coming into the relationship, have communication. Go to counselor, go to talk to a lawyer. It’s no big deal. You’re going to pay a little bit. If you’ve got a good lawyer, gonna pay for a consult, pay for a quick consult, see what the pitfalls are, figure it out, and then talk about those issues before you introduce the kids, before you move in, before you go buy the house, the car, all that stuff, just slow down a little bit. Yeah.

Mary Maloney  44:54

Mary –  Take a breath. No. So we talked about a lot of different things that these families can do to. Up a good foundations for success. I think, you know, seeing a professional is a great place to go. The other thing I think is good to talk about is how you handle your finances. And a lot of people go into relationships and they don’t, whether it’s a step family or not, that can bring up a lot of problems. So, yeah, how should that conversation go?

Justin Sisemore  45:18

Justin – You know, the the big thing that gets hard to when you have blended families and you’re taking time, a lot of people don’t have the resources to have dual households, right? We represent some of the wealthiest people down to some of the poorest people. All. Most of the case, in fact, pattern is actually pretty similar. You just have a few more things to divide or, you know, maybe you have a little bit different time schedule and whatnot based on work schedules, because people have two jobs, three jobs, work nights, all that. But financially, I think the biggest piece is a figuring out, you know, what are we going to give, what are we going to provide for the kids, and when are we going to provide it? Are we doing it out of spite? Are we are we buying them things out of spite? You know, are we reinforcing their positive behaviors? And you know, that’s where, that’s where these parental alienation things come into play. Because I always fast forward to what happens if you get to court. And I think most people kind of want to know what happens when you get to court, because that’s the salty stuff. But it’s like, you know, if you, if you are automatically going into a relationship, and you, you have not discussed finances, you haven’t discussed what your dual household looks like because you have two residences, right? You know, those expenses become the catalyst of larger scale fights, and when you buy things for kids for the wrong reasons, it’s manipulation, it comes into a courtroom as manipulation. And you know that happened to me as a kid. You know, all of a sudden I’ve got new shirts and a little motorcycle and all this other stuff that I shouldn’t have been really driving. But when you’re 12 years old, that’s the coolest damn thing in the world, right? And so, well, hey, now all of a sudden, person who’s buying this for you, parent who’s buying for you, is getting that reinforcement, and Mama’s not feeling the love, and so she starts holding on to you like she’s riding a bull in a china cabinet, you know, and breaking all the glass. And so you’ve got to be vocal about that. And don’t wait to act on those don’t wait till it becomes some big war. Walk into a divorce attorney or a custody attorney and expect them to, you know, mend all these pieces if the if you’re having those issues, show good signs of communication and try to heal it as it’s coming up. Talk, don’t talk at be open. Ask the who, what, when, where, why, questions. You can use our family wizard. You can use text messages. You can establish your little text chain so you can have all the great evidence you’re going to show me. But the reality is financial piece of this is not it’s it’s so family specific, there’s not a clear cut way to do it, and so I think you just have to be very transparent for what that’s going to look like.

47:46

Andrea – I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s the stuff you buy the kids. But I think the other thing in my situation, it’s, it’s, we’re crossing that bridge. Now, if you’re in the blended family, God forbid something happens to you and your partner. What happens with all the stuff that you have together, married or not married, what happens if you have an inheritance? In my case, there’s an inheritance My parents passed. I’m in a blended family. What if something happens to me? Where does that go? I think that’s what people don’t really think about. They don’t think about it doing marriage, because you think, Oh, we have an inheritance. No big deal. God forbid something happens down the road. I think that’s a topic for another podcast to really talk about stuff like that, because most people nowadays, baby boomers, parents, get older, you don’t think about that stuff

Justin Sisemore  48:27

Justin – for sure.

48:27

Andrea – And if you’re in a second marriage or third marriage, and you have a blended family, I think that topic becomes even more because maybe your your bonus children never met your parents. But then some happens to you. What happens to the inheritance? Is it all of a sudden there’s now two

Justin Sisemore  48:42

Justin – or you get the 20 year old that rolls in with the 60 year old daddy, and all of a sudden you got kids and they don’t and what happens to all his stuff? If something happens that is a big wedge. I deal. I dealt with that issue last week. Yeah, so be I think,

48:54

Andrea – but that’s a that’s a topic by itself, but I think you need to set yourself up and be clear also about what’s going to happen down the road. Blended family now is fine, our kids are little, but what happens and in college? I mean, all this, all the financial stuff, too, the divorce decree is one thing when you come out of a marriage, but now, if you’re in a blended family and the kids are underage, they go to college. Who’s paying for college that’s normally not in a divorce decree. I mean, sometimes I guess it’s in there, and mine didn’t have it in there. So who’s paying for college? Is there no new daddy or new mommy gonna pick up the check? Are you even paying for college? Do they get student loans? I mean, that’s what I’m saying. You have to be in a fairly decent relationship with the father or mother of your kids for the rest of your life. Because, yeah, 18,

Justin Sisemore  49:35

Justin – just like you said. I mean, being proactive is very hard for people when they’re in lust or what they think is love, and sometimes it’s both, but being proactive and thinking about, I mean, I get the conversation, we’re getting married in two months. I really need this prenup, you know? And I tell people like, first of all, don’t wait till the month before to go do that and to tails get married, yeah, just hold on. But it’s sometimes not bad. Just like. In companies like you kind of talk through these issues and see how big the pain points are going to be. And I think in situations where you’re dealing with prenups, where you’re dealing with the separate property nature of things, it feels very cold. And when you’re in the heat of the moment with somebody passionate and all those things like it kind of pours a little ice water on it, but that ice water will become an absolute full Blaze fire later on. And the goal is to be proactive, so you don’t have to get there, right?

Mary Maloney  50:29

Mary – So we definitely should get a financial advisor on with us to talk about that. Yeah, and there’s a great article I found in Forbes that was about money conversations for blended families. So we can probably drop that out there on social media somewhere. So you guys, any other thoughts on this topic? I mean, we could talk about this all day. Any other takeaways we want to give to people before we wrap up?

50:51

Andrea – I would just say it’s not, it’s not as easy as it looks. Just because you have kids does not prepare you for being in a blended family. That’s what I think. And a decent human decent, human behavior is necessary and always make the kids first. Because I I think it’s there’s nothing different in stepping as a step parent into a relationship where there’s an ex is the same thing. If somebody passed, you’re taking over a different role, and you just need to be prepared for that. And you need this always needs to be the kids.

Justin Sisemore  51:16

Justin – I’m just gonna say it’s like making cookies stir slowly, stir thoroughly. And you don’t have the lumpy cookie, and that’s as dumb as I can be of an analogy, but it freaking works. Go slow, be thorough.

51:33

Andrea – Yeah, I agree. Well, great.

Mary Maloney  51:34

Mary – Well, if you live in Texas and you’d like to contact the Sisemore Law Firm, you can reach the firm at 817-336-4444, or visit www.lawyerdfw.com you can also follow the law firm on social media, on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, all over the place. You can follow Justin on LinkedIn too. If you want to and Andrea, you don’t need to follow me. I’m really boring, not boring. I don’t put much out there. So please follow us and join us again next time you.