Maximize Asset Division During Divorce (Ep.9)

[00:00:00] Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters bring.  Welcome to In Your Best Interest. Texas divorce attorney and entrepreneur Justin Sisemore of the Sisemore law firm, entrepreneur, Andrea Jones, freelance writer Mary Maloney, and guests share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law, and living the entrepreneur’s life, now onto the show.

[00:00:40] The State of Texas is a community property state, which means any assets included in the marital estate are subject to just and right division upon divorce. Defining which assets qualify as community versus separate property and determining the proper valuation of those assets can get complicated. In today’s edition of In [00:01:00] Your Best Interest, we’ll discuss how the valuation process works and what factors can affect property division during a divorce.

[00:01:09] Thanks for joining us for this episode of In Your Best Interest. I’m Mary Maloney, and today attorney Justin Sisemore, entrepreneur Andrea Jones and I will share insight on how shared assets are handled during divorce in Texas. So Justin, let’s start off talking about the fact that Texas is a community property state.

[00:01:27] Um, can you kind of explain what that means and then talk a little bit about the difference between community and separate property. Yeah, so community property is basically broken down into an asset classification whereby the day you get married, any property that you acquired during the marriage, unless it’s by gift,devise or descent, is considered community property.

[00:01:51] So it’s divisible, uh, by a court. And so separate property would be anything outside of that, and the court confirms separate property [00:02:00] and they award community property.

[00:02:01] Can you, uh, go a little deeper into that? Maybe touch on what separate property would actually be, because I know we’ve talked about inheritance before. Maybe, uh, a business interest that you brought into the marriage and things like that, that you had before. Sure. So there’s, there’s a big confusion out there with respect to when a party has been married for 10 or 15 years, and let’s say for example, they inherited some property.

[00:02:27] Either they were gifted some property or a spouse transfers property to their other spouse, they put them on a deed, right? Uh, so these are simple examples. What happens with the confusion is generally speaking, there’s a lot of co-mingling that happens in an estate when you’ve been married for multiple years.

[00:02:46] So with respect to community property, what you actually have to do, uh, the burden of proof is on the party trying to claim it as separate. So the, distinguishing factor there is getting [00:03:00] tracing schedules to show that the property is in and of itself separate. i.e.you had it before the marriage, or you inherited it, you were gifted it you know, or it, it passed down from some third party.

[00:03:11] So the, the kicker there is Really being able to get the documentation from way back when, you know, if it’s 7, 8, 10 years, to prove that that’s actually separate property to really draw that line. And the reason I go through the, the burden of proof there is because it directly relates to the definition of community and separate property.

[00:03:32] It’s that line drawn in the sand. That shows that that property is community and or separate, Uh, it’s not just date of marriage. It’s also, you know, you have enhanced value of the property. You have income that spins off. And we’re, we’re in Texas, so we deal with oil and gas all the time. So you have.

[00:03:50] Different factors that come in from oil and gas, for example, you have shut in royalties, you have delay rentals, um, you have royalty interests. You have, um, you know, various other things that happen [00:04:00] in oil and gas that create income and are classified as income so that that income again, Can be considered community property even though it’s coming from a separate property, uh, inheritance and or an oil and gas deal that you did before the marriage.

[00:04:15] So I always use the analogy of, you know, think of your house, right? The front door is the date of the marriage, the back door is the date of divorce. Anything that you accumulate in that house, um, during the marriage, unless it’s given to you or it’s devised to you, or it’s descented to you, meaning it’s it’s willed to you.

[00:04:33] Um, anything that’s accumulates in that house is community, property and subject to not only valuation, but also division. So let’s move on to, um, the fact that once you are going through divorce, it’s, it’s very important to get all of those different assets collected, um, identified and create an inventory of those.

[00:04:53] Can you kind of just explain in general what’s involved with the process of preparing an inventory of [00:05:00] your marital estate? One of the things that I’ve really touched on a few consults as of recent. I get people that call and they generally think they want a, a prenup conversation. Um, but it actually evolves into a conversation about.

[00:05:16] Really defining what you have. And I, I like to use the analogy of estate planning. Um, mainly because a, you know, most people, especially, you know, we see a lot of people at 40 to 50 to, you know, early sixties. Uh, people in their late twenties that get married, they have no estate plan whatsoever and they’ve got kids, uh, and whatnot.

[00:05:37] So the reason why this parallels is. When you are dealing with those defining factors like you talked about the inventory and getting the information together, when you’re dealing with those defining factors, one of the things that you want to do before you get married is, and this is not to to be contemplating divorce.

[00:05:56] This is truly to just purely understand what you have, and most importantly, have the [00:06:00] documentation ready. Right. So you don’t run into these issues. So one of the things I tell people to do all the time if they call before for a consult, uh, before they get married, is to do a running inventory of what they have in the estate and also get the documentation together to back that up.

[00:06:16] So if you have. A hundred thousand dollars in the bank and it’s with Chase. Uh, get that bank statement because what’s gonna happen if, if something happens in the future is if you’re trying to trace out what you brought into the marriage and it’s an earlier marriage, you can generally go back and get that documentation.

[00:06:31] But if it’s a. 10, 15, 20 year marriage. Even with the online platforms that we have, a lot of these banks aren’t saving this information. So you call you know, bank A or investment company B, and they just don’t have the origination document. So that’s the one that traces the, or draws that line in the sand to trace that actual valuation.

[00:06:51] So with respect to the inventories, um, you know, it’s really important if you can, to do that before the marriage. If you can’t, um, it’s really important to be thinking [00:07:00] about, um, specifically where your stuff is and what happens in the event that something happens to you. And that’s important for both spouses, even if it’s something that’s minute as a little vehicle.

[00:07:11] Or, you know, you don’t know, um, the title of, of what a house is in. Um, there’s not specifics as to that. And then there’s a lot of refinancing that happens, um, and co-mingling of accounts where you, you know, you transfer retirement A to retirement B account, or you transfer bank account A to bank to bank B.

[00:07:30] And every time you do that, you’re breaking that chain, right? And so from a tracing side, you trace in. To the account to show what was in the account. You trace that that account amount was there, and then ob, obviously there’s fluctuations in value, so if you’re removing funds or you’re co-mingling those funds, it’s just really important to be thinking about the inventory concept because every time you’re making that change, you need to be drawing that line and and defining what’s there.

[00:07:56] And that really leads into the next question here, that it, it really can get complicated [00:08:00] when you’re trying to determine the valuation of those different assets as you just referred to. Can you talk a little bit more about the how, how the valuation process works? I mean, there’s the tracking of it, the tracing of it, and then of course you bring in valuation experts as well.

[00:08:13] Sure. So the, the, the valuation is probably what I would consider the biggest craft of a divorce attorney. And you should always rely on experts regardless of, you know, I always preach about having a business background that is important to be able to identify and spot issues, but it does not substitute for the advice and the evidence that an expert can produce.

[00:08:36] So valuation can go all over the place. I, I’ve seen. 15, 10 million differences in valuation. And, you know, you’ve got different ways to look at valuation. One of it is a, you know, basically a multiplier approach where you have the net ebitda, uh, and you do a multiplier approach of that. So that’s earnings before interest, taxes, and depreciation and amortization.

[00:08:59] So when [00:09:00] you’re doing a EBITDA approach and you’re doing a multiple. Um, you’re figuring out kind of what the net profit of the business is and figuring out, okay, well, how many customers do they have? How attached to the customers are they, What is the goodwill of the individual? Um, and, and then when you get all the, that information together, and again, you’re, you’re tracing, you’re gathering the information, and then you’re valuing.

[00:09:24] So it, you gotta be very organized in this process specifically. When you’re trying to defend against a big valuation, cuz you know, keep in mind judges, they’re not all business people. Um, so they’re relying on the information given by the experts. So if you come in very organized and you have a very clear explanation without all of these, I call it the space language, where they get off on these financial tangents and you put people to sleep.

[00:09:50] Uh, I, if you really organize yourself and you have a very clear cut, one to two page explanation about what’s going on with evaluation. One of the things that you’re [00:10:00] gonna do there, specifically when you’ve got a small, closely held business, is you’re backing the spouse out. Let’s say for example, I have let’s call it a snow cone stand for simplicity.

[00:10:10] Um, and everybody comes to my snow cone stand because they love me distributing the snow cones. Well, one of the things that you deal with is if you back that individual out, would people still come to this snow cone stand? And if the answer is yes, Obviously the goodwill side of the business is there, but the individual is not as important.

[00:10:28] So now we’re, I mean, and, and again, I’m saying all these things. I know I’m, we’re bouncing it all around, but it’s important that you hear how much complexity is in just valuation in and of itself, because what happens generally in a marriage, one party, Is running and operating the business. The other party may be slightly involved in a bookkeeping aspect, but they’re not really integrated into the business.

[00:10:50] And so when you get to a division of property, how is, how do you do a just and right division when you have one side that’s running the business, has all the customers, [00:11:00] has all the contacts, and the other side doesn’t really have much information. And so courts look at, in a community of property state, what that value is.

[00:11:08] How do you offset that value? Uh, with respect to, um, you know, a money judgment. If they get a money judgment, is that money judgment secured by a tangible assets? Um, and those are, those are, that’s kind of the balancing act. And you know, we are in a situation a lot in a divorce cases where, You might not capture a hundred percent of the value of the business, but you capture a lot of the secured interest in the assets on the other side or the balancing factors there.

[00:11:36] So you might give up some of that valuation, which again, can fluctuate. Massively depending on what the experts find and the, and the method they use. And then we look at the security of the, the party on the other side and say, Okay, well, you know, this three or $4 million is gonna be, make, make this person whole.

[00:11:52] And yes, the business is worth 10, but we can guarantee that they have their hands on the three or 4 million. So we take the deal, right? And [00:12:00] the, and and those are the risk factors that are individualized. And we, we definitely walk through. But you could get this, you might, the court might do this. We walk through the scenarios, but ultimately it becomes a financial decision and a business decision.

[00:12:12] So I, I think I’ve darted around a little bit there, but I hope that answered part of your. . Yeah, absolutely. So, um, circling back kind of to the experts here, um, when you have different experts involved, um, well first of all, I know we’ve talked in the past about how important it is to get your hands on the best experts possible first.

[00:12:31] So if you could talk a little bit about that and then how the, the judge determines which expert is correct, I guess basically. Sure. So again, the burden of proof, and I keep going back to the tracing side of that, the documentation side of that, the organization side of that, and also the valuation, and then the expert who puts forth the information together with the attorney that asks the questions.

[00:12:57] Okay? So that’s how that, that’s how the puzzle pieces fit [00:13:00] together. And you can hear, and you should be thinking about all the moving parts to that. You know, clients think if they don’t see you in a courtroom, The whole case is all evolves around how many hours you actually spend in a courtroom. Well, one of the things that’s really important is a, realizing what your strengths and weaknesses are.

[00:13:17] And that’s why when you’re looking at the expert themselves, uh, you’re looking at somebody that can really communicate effectively. Right? So I’ve had some incredibly smart experts that can go on for days about how intelligent they are, and it literally puts the room to sleep. Asap, myself included, and I can’t get a clear answer out of them.

[00:13:38] That basically explains something in a simplistic fashion to where you know it, everyone kind of goes uhhuh. You know, when you see the judge kind of give you those eyes, like, what did they just say? And you’re sitting there and you’re asking this expert that you’ve paid a bunch of money for and you haven’t really vetted them, and you’re sitting there going, I don’t really know what they said either.

[00:13:57] That’s a terrible place and time to have that. [00:14:00] Um, and keep in mind, experts are expensive. So in a lot of divorce cases, you don’t have the luxury of at limitless finance or unlimited financial resources to be able to do depositions of the expert and all the things that you would do in a big civil case.

[00:14:14] And so sometimes you get this expert report, you call the expert and you say, Okay, well just kind of explain this to me. And they give you kind of a quick rundown. And so you feel like that expert is qualified to basically further explain that in a courtroom. Then you get somebody who’s really prepared on the other side because their, their expert has worked with them and has prepared the attorney as much as the client.

[00:14:36] And now you start asking these very finite, specific questions that are in reliable methods of experts. And what you find is you can really expose the weakness of not only the ability for the expert to communicate the information, but also to really expose the reliability of, of how they acquired their information or how they acquired their valuation.

[00:14:57] So, as far as what the court [00:15:00] considers, you, you, when you’re dealing with the just and right  division of the marital estate and you’ve got one expert that has got their ts crossed, I’s dotted, everything’s reported very well. It’s, it’s, it’s a very smooth transition versus somebody who kind of gives these loosey-goosey answers to questions and they don’t have all the documents in front of them that they.

[00:15:19] Basically be cross examined on, uh, and have really a good intellectual response that that negates or adds to whatever the expert is saying. It’s very easy to knock them out. So when your burden of proof, um, is clear and convincing evidence, and one party is saying $1 million, and the other party is saying two.

[00:15:38] The party that’s saying two , that is not involved in the business, doesn’t understand the customer breakdown, doesn’t understand, uh, the diversity of the market space, the cycles of the sales cycle, uh, and all the things that come into play in business. The party two is kind of just coming up with a figure cuz that’s what their client wants or thinks and that’s where you kind of punch holes in [00:16:00] those, in, in those arguments.

[00:16:01] And it, it’s, it’s kind of a smoother transit. Uh, from the party that’s actually apprised of all the information and that Mary is like, one of the things that is really challenging when you have one party that’s completely uninvolved in the assets or the business, it’s very hard for them to get their mind around the financial aspect of the business.

[00:16:19] And so when they’re expert, Is, you know, fishing through just financial documents, but the experts not really going into, uh, the q and a session with the entrepreneur or the business owner. Uh, you know, the financial part of the business is just part of it. And the other part of it is the goodwill. The other part of it is the customer relations, how many customers there are, and if you don’t have those questions answered and you don’t have somebody.

[00:16:44] Can just speak the human language, common, the English language in common sense terms. The entrepreneurs shut down cause obviously they’re on the other side. So it’s really important to think through all of those things and I’m very particular on those experts. As a result, when you have the experts in court, is [00:17:00] the expert also somebody use use after their divorces final to help in a division of the property?

[00:17:07] Cuz you were talking how difficult it is to even assess it. So how does it work after the divorce? No, generally speaking, we, we really try to divide and conquer roles, right? So I have experts that are really good tracing experts. They’re, I have experts that are really good at valuation and I have one or two that are kind of a hybrid there.

[00:17:27] And then we use financial people, or, and I call them experts, but they, they’re not in the same category of classification. I use financial, uh, individuals. Investment strategists and whatnot for implementation post divorce. But and that’s not really to get the, the assets transferred, right? We’re the expert’s role is to define and value.

[00:17:51] But what, what our role is, is once they define and value and then the court gives the judgment or the. or we reach a mediated settlement [00:18:00] agreement, then what we do behind the scenes is obviously the decrees and most importantly the ancillary documents that transfer those assets. And so, you know, the experts really aren’t involved in that.

[00:18:12] I would say that, as far as financial, uh, investment strategists and, you know, law firms and corporate attorneys and all that, when we’re dealing with a lot of complexities to a case, I always reach out to the professionals and individuals, the trust attorneys, the estate attorneys just to make sure that we have a second set of eyes, um, that are really crossing the t’s and.dotting  the i’s.

[00:18:34] Because a lot of the times, the language and the decree and the ancillary documents and maybe a trust, it’ll have some conflicting provisions. So it’s really important in the implementation phase to be, to really take your time and get that consistent. And that’s why what I try to do much far before the mediation, um, Maybe not as far before the mediation, but far before the trial is to really flesh out the language [00:19:00] of what we’re after, right?

[00:19:01] So when we have a proposed division of property, then we basically are thinking that way. And so what documents, what ancillary documents need, Do we need to transfer or effectuate that, that division? Um, but in answer to your question, I don’t really rely on experts to do the transfer of the property there.

[00:19:20] That’s something that we do in. Okay. So it takes a village basically to get this done. Absolutely straightened out. Okay, cool. Thanks. So, you know, as we wrap up, you guys, um, I wanted to go back to talking about just and right  division and Justin, that doesn’t necessarily mean a 50/50 split, which a lot of people think that it might, you know.

[00:19:38] So what factors can affect how a marital estate is divided? There is a lot of different things that could factor. Yeah. So first I wanna touch on just and right division. In several thousand divorce cases in 15 years of practice. I don’t know what that means. mm-hmm. . So if you, um, if you, if you have an idea and you’re some expert divorce [00:20:00] attorney out there, that’s great.

[00:20:01] Uh, the point being is that it’s meant to be broad, just like best interest of the child is meant to be broad. Um, it’s meant to allow a very wide degree of discretion for the court. So while courts generally try to make both parties whole in an equitable manner, you know, the, the, the 50/50 are fair, um, terms, I always get that outta client’s heads in the beginning.

[00:20:25] And the main reason is if you let me define, I had a finance professor at Baylor and he always said, If you, you can charge me whatever you want for this house. If you let me define the interest rate and the terms. So what, what that means is if I can define the, the, the actual tangible asset as far as evaluation, and I can determine payout, I can make a 50/50 look, 50/50, but it can be 60/40, uh, just based on just the financial terms alone, based on the tax, uh, in terms alone, Um, and.

[00:20:57] As far as the division [00:21:00] or fairness or just and right division, uh, it’s really important specifically when you’re not just dealing with a house with a value or retirement account with a value. The simple estates, when you really have moving parts like businesses entities that are spitting off income, basically a payout or buyout for.

[00:21:17] Let’s, let’s call it a ranch business or a farm business or oil and gas, or whatever the case may be. Um, you know, that’s where the complexity comes in and that’s where, in my opinion, the craft of the attorney comes in. It’s the ability to not only get the information organized, but it’s really the ability of the attorney to communicate that after they’ve defined it and.

[00:21:39] Put the story together. The, the, the stay at home wife or her husband that’s been the stay at home for 10 years 15 years that doesn’t really have any information. And now all of a sudden there’s this business that has all these moving parts. There’s partnership interests, there’s real estate.

[00:21:54] You’ve really gotta. Cut that up and define each piece and break it down, and then get it back together [00:22:00] as a whole. And then I like to keep it all down to one or two pages on an Excel spreadsheet so you can move those pieces back and forth. And we have our spreadsheet right, which is. Kind of what we know and what we’re thinking from a strategic direction.

[00:22:14] And then we have the inventory spreadsheet, right? And it doesn’t mean that the numbers necessarily change, it just means that when we’re looking at it from a strategic direction and it tax advantage or a valuation advantage you know, I can move those pieces back and forth in a mediation or in a trial and, and before trial and show the clients really what that division means.

[00:22:34] But so you’re telling, so you’re telling us basically, If, if one of the, uh, the spouses cheats has no impact on something like that, so is there not, is there not unfair to stay at home wife that that took care of the kids for many, many years, another husband or vice versa? It goes, steps out of the marriage and now there’s no, there’s no benefit for us in Texas.

[00:22:56] No, So don’t hear me say that. What I, what I was, what I was trying to [00:23:00] clearly point out is that a just and right division is not a percentage to a T, right? It’s a, it’s, it can be 50%, 55%, but that 55% can look like 55%, but it’s not. Um, and so that’s the first. Piece. The second piece is what moves the needle to change that.

[00:23:17] If you’re thinking of 50/50 scale, which I try to get that outta people’s heads, but if you’re thinking that way, some of the, the factors that Mary just touched on was, Okay, well what does a court consider when they’re moving one scale and tipping it to in favor of one side versus the other? And so those are situations.

[00:23:33] Are you disabled? Do you have the ability to work? How long has it been since you’ve worked? Are you raising a, a disabled child? Do you have, are you raising the kids in general? Um, do you have work experience? Do you have a college degree? Um, do you have the ability to go out and earn? You know, as far as the earnings of the spouse, that’s one thing.

[00:23:52] And let’s say one. Cheats on the other one, and the other spouse has, uh, a lot higher ability to earn. That starts to tip the [00:24:00] scales more balanced and, you know, in, in a divorce setting specifically with what I call the hot button or, or red button issues. The adultery, the abuse, the cruel treatment. Um, those are the very emotional, um, aspects to a division of property.

[00:24:15] And they certainly provide and allow for an unequal division favoring the, the victim of that situation. But there are also offsets. That’s the hardest thing to explain to clients is, yes, that person cheated, or yes, that person’s been abusive, but there are still assets over here that have to be divided.

[00:24:33] And you know, some people come in just like custody cases. They say, I want full custody, or I want, um, that pound of flesh in the, in the, uh, division of property. And it’s just, it’s just very challenging to get there. Um, you know, to a hundred percent division. Now we have had. Andrea, you’ve been privy to the 90/10 splits and you’ve seen those, um, when we’ve come through, and those are very egregious and they’re outliers.

[00:24:56] So I don’t even like to brag about ’em. You know, if, if you’re gonna [00:25:00] brag and divorce. Um, but, but I would say that those cases were really worked up and we had a lot of issues of fraud. Uh, we had depositions and we had somebody that was really trying to hide the money and everyone says, Well, I think they’re hiding assets, or they’re narcissistic, or whatever.

[00:25:15] But when you really dive deep into those, Fact patterns. A lot of times the people don’t even have any money to begin with and so I don’t allow them to just chase this magic carpet ride. I don’t allow them to go and really work to your question. I don’t really allow them to just go down and, you know, beat up this adultery and spend all the clients money if there’s not gonna be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow there.

[00:25:38] And. Yes, it answered your question. It does impact it. But you first have to identify the assets, figure out whether it’s community or separate property, figure out the valuation, figure out whether there’s assets remaining that you can divide. How are you gonna secure those? And then you go into the Justin right division.

[00:25:55] So all of the behind the scenes work here. That’s really where I [00:26:00] tell clients that’s where 90% of the soup is. And the frustrating part for clients is they don’t get to see that they’re not in your office. They don’t see eight paralegals and, you know, seven attorneys and, you know, all the conversations and the support staff really creating this whole, uh, mosaic, if you will.

[00:26:16] And all of these pieces to that mosaic, uh, really create the big picture and they don’t see that till mediation, uh, or a trial. And so all of these letters, All of the valuation, all the evidence comes into play. And when you’re dealing with just and right  division, um, and you’re really trying to paint that picture, that’s how you do that.

[00:26:34] That’s the evidence you need to get you there. And so, and other states are different, right? So people moving here from other states the, the law might have been different from the state that they’re coming from. I say, I cannot assume if I move here from California, move here from Ohio or wherever, that the same rules apply here in Texas as.

[00:26:52] In California, for example. Correct? Correct. And, and you know, we, we still, even though, you know, we hear alimony get thrown around all the [00:27:00] time with maintenance and they’re very different. You know, Texas is not an alimony state, but we still borrow things from other states like alimony. Um, we, we do contractual alimony all the time in division of property to offset, um, a company’s value.

[00:27:15] Um, and there’s, there’s pros and cons to these things, right? Alimony, for example, is nondischargeable and bankruptcy. Uh, post divorce maintenance has the ability to be modified. Um, and so there’s, you really have to. Think through the division of property, um, in conjunction with, you know, what’s best for the client and what, what’s gonna make them whole long term.

[00:27:36] Cuz it’s never perfect. I’ve never had a case. Uh, you know, we just finished one, I guess about two or three months ago where the, the, the wife was a stay at home. The husband worked for a very prominent family here in Fort Worth, um, and was a very, very high up executive level. All of these business interests and there were all these closely held business interests owned by the boss of [00:28:00] the, uh, of the other spouse, and that boss had the ability to control.

[00:28:05] When they were sold, when the distributions were made and all that. So, you know, we went through a, a 30 or $40 million exercise with dividing up, you know, what 20 million looks like, what 15 million looks like. And I, I, I don’t just throw these big numbers around. So people go, Well, I don’t have that, so I don’t need this.

[00:28:22] I, I do it because it, it, it doesn’t matter whether you have just a house and a retirement, or you have a massive estate. It’s very, very important that you define. What’s there, And you keep the same process. I don’t change process for multimillionaires to people that you know, are just trying to get by. I don’t change how we do it.

[00:28:42] We, we take the same approach and it’s just as important. And oftentimes, the less assets there are and the less liquidity there is to basically simplify the process. Even though it’s a one asset divorce case, those are the ones that drag on because neither party can, qualify to finance the other one out or, or, um, you know, buy the other one.

[00:28:59] [00:29:00] And so those, those are much more difficult to get the horse to water, to make him drink cases. So I think that’s a, a good spot to wrap up unless you have anything else to add about valuation or community property. Yeah, I know this is kind of not the, uh, the most exciting topic in the world as far as our listeners go, but there really are a lot of complexities and I we’re getting a lot of questions about, um, specifics on community and separate property, um, and how the other states tie in and, you know, estate planning and all that stuff.

[00:29:31] So we are gonna touch on some of the, drier topics, if you will, as we come, as we move forward. But they’re, they’re a tangible piece to the, to the whole puzzle here. Um, and, and that’s, that’s why I like the entrepreneur aspect of this, um, when we’re, when we’re dealing with these kind of, with these kind of situations.

[00:29:49] And so as we get further, uh, questions from our listeners, we’ll go ahead and touch on some of those and we’ll try to spice it up a little bit. But some of the financial talk is a little dry. , well hand. I think the [00:30:00] best thing for people to do is if they do have questions, Their divorce and their property and valuation for their specific case, They should contact the Sisemore Law Firm, um, if they live in the Dallas Fort Worth area.

[00:30:12] And if you’d like to get in touch with, um, Justin’s firm, you can call 817-336-4444 or visit www.lawyerdfw.com. And of course, we invite you to follow the podcast and if you have friends, Looking to get divorced or they need help with custody matters, um, certainly share this podcast with them. Thanks so much for listening and have a great day.

[00:30:36] Thank you for listening to In Your Best Interest with Texas Divorce Attorney and entrepreneur Justin Sisemore. The content presented here is provided for information only and should not be construed as legal, tax, or financial advice. Click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available.