Harnessing Composure and Strength Through Divorce (Ep. 26)

Announcer 1 – [00:00:00] Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters bring Welcome to In Your Best Interest. Texas divorce attorney and entrepreneur, Justin Sisemore of the Sisemore Law Firm, entrepreneur, Andrea Jones, freelance writer Mary Maloney, and guests share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law and living the entrepreneur’s life.[00:00:36] Now onto the show, 

Announcer 2 – Anyone who has gone through divorce will tell you. Divorce is not for sissies, and this sentiment holds true for attorneys and their clients. In today’s episode of In Your Best Interest, the panel will discuss the importance of maintaining composure, staying grounded, and following the golden rule. [00:00:57] When navigating each step of the divorce and [00:01:00] child custody process, they will also share insight on surviving the ups and downs of divorce. Finding the silver lining on the other side. 

Mary – Thanks for joining us for In Your Best Interest. I’m Mary Maloney, and today attorney Justin Sisemore, entrepreneur Andrea Jones and I will be talking Lion’s Tales and divorce survival tactics. [00:01:21] So Justin, your inspiration for this podcast does start with a Lion’s tale, so you wanna kick us off with that story? 

Justin – Yeah, I, I, I’ve, I’ve been listening to a lot of podcasts myself about self-growth. I, I make a habit of doing that. And, and a lot of what I listen to things like Founders Podcast is a great example. [00:01:39] It, I love to learn from people, uh, who’ve been there before us. You know, the history the histrionic people and all those, those those that can really inspire and educate you in a big way. So, so I also love to learn from entrepreneurs. I love to learn from people inside and outside of our business. [00:01:56] And you know, what you, what you glean from a lot of that [00:02:00] is, and, and a lot of the information and a lot of the people, uh, that are really inspiring is, you know, when you talk about a lion, what do you think about, you know, and I’ve heard the Joe Rogans of the world and some other people talk about, you don’t, you don’t need to be. [00:02:15] Uh, you know, a, a total pacifist, you don’t need to let people, uh, walk on you and step on you, and you also don’t need to assert your position about everything. Um, you know, when we talk about what is a lion, it is being able to channel, uh, and know that you have the ability to strike and attack, but being able to channel that energy, uh, and not just do it because you can. [00:02:40] And you know, I think that’s a very telling point for both the attorney and the client throughout the process. And I wanted to talk about that because every step that we’ve talked about builds on each other, the temporary orders, the discovery, the mediation, the trial, the four biggies, uh, that we’ve talked about before. [00:02:58] They all build on each other. [00:03:00] And so when you talk about the Lion’s tale and how that applies. To divorce litigation and also to the client. What you’re thinking about there is, yes, I may be able to, as a lawyer, go beat my chest like Tarzan in the temporary orders. I may be able to go get a certain result that feels very good in the beginning, but creates big wars in the end and in the middle. [00:03:24] I may absolutely disrupt two party’s ability to co-parent, and I’ve got some nuggets that would allow me to do that as the attorney. And if it was about me as the attorney and not about the client, then I certainly would want to throw that out there, uh, blow up the world and just do the death march to every attorney I meet with. [00:03:43] And there are a lot of attorneys out there, uh, specifically in the last few years that, that, that’s been the case with. So what I talk to our team about internally is listen. If the other side, uh, the other attorney gets on the phone and they’re starting to scream and yell and they’re getting all emotional [00:04:00] about things, the, the, the old saying, you know, is the, the real lion really just kinda walks down there and eats what he wants, right? [00:04:07] You know, that’s, that’s kind of the, the idea there. Be quiet, be silent, be vigilant, be diligent. But, and don’t, don’t fight back and don’t get into the emotional arena. That’s just on the lawyer side. Okay. It’s also very true on the paralegal side. Uh, you know, paralegals talk a lot on the phone. They do a lot of the heavy lifting behind the scenes and specifically at the temporary orders phase. [00:04:30] When they’re gathering information, you know, the, the immediate jump is to want to go to the conclusion, uh, well, your client did this, or their, your client did this, and it’s just a very, very easy tell for me. If you’re, if you’re kind of looking at it like a poker hand, if somebody is, is hot and bothered about talking to you about getting a bank statement on the other side of your case, we’re gonna mop the floor with them nine times outta 10. [00:04:55] And the reason is, is because, you know, they’re either stressed out in life, they’re not organized. [00:05:00] They’ve, they’ve taken this case way too personally. There’s a litany of reasons you would look at there, but the reason I talk about going back to the lion’s tale is if you bury the, the ability to bite and the ability to eat when you need to and just know you can. [00:05:16] That’s, that’s really, I think the evolution of what. What I hope our society starts to become. We’ve seen, you know, the keyboard warrior transition, uh, in 20 20, 21 and 22, the political structure, all those things. And it really has changed mindset in my opinion. You know, I think we’re, I think we’re kind of feel, it feels to me like we’re rounding the corner on some of this. [00:05:37] Um, I think people are starting to be more assertive about their own wants and needs. And, you know, obviously if that goes on too long, then that turns into selfishness and all that other stuff. So it’s just. It’s about the balance. It’s about taking your talents, understanding them, not asserting them, uh, on the other side, not projecting, not concluding, not stepping on another human.[00:05:58] That’s why I go back to that [00:06:00] do right rule. 

Andrea – And I think for, for listeners to understand or to, to, to be aware of when you hire an attorney, that attorney has seen the other, or has seen, has worked with the other attorneys many, many times. This might be your first time in court having a divorce or modification, but lawyers get hired in a certain county over and over again and they have worked with each other. [00:06:21] So you gotta be very careful who you pick there, whether you pick somebody who already has that reputation of somebody that is not easy to work with. Because then you run into exactly the examples Justin just shared. I think many are not aware of that. Attorneys know each other in a certain county.

Mary – [00:06:38] That’s a great point too, because it’s like how do you go about choosing that attorney, getting referrals from friends, reading reviews and things like that. Right. Justin? 

Andrea – Yeah, and I think the personal one is, is important as a, from a, speaking from the client side, you should either meet with the attorney or talk to them on the phone. [00:06:55] ’cause you’re gonna get a good idea in talking to the attorney. What kind of [00:07:00] personality is behind there? If you have a good conversation and you’re always, of course, in charge, asking questions, you can ask good questions and you see. This, you might not understand the strategy, but I think you would, you will get a good idea what kind of person you’re talking to. [00:07:13] Going back to what Justin said, it’s, this is more than just your court case. This is about the personality, how the law firm is actually run, how the, the first client is always the staff. How is the staff feel in the firm? Do they feel treated well? First client anywhere is, is your, are your own employees? [00:07:30] How is the staff treated? You get a good feel, I think about who you’re hiring or should be hiring, and Justin always says, talk to more than one person. You get a better feel for who is the right match for you. 

Justin – Yeah. I Mary, to that point, I, I love that Andrea brought in the business touch and that’s, that’s really another thing. [00:07:45] In addition to her, her personal experiences of what she brings to the table for clients is that. Attorneys, when someone calls me and says, my, should my husband hire this person? We’re trying to go through this together. We’re trying to get along. Should my husband hire this person? [00:08:00] I, I’m very hesitant to say anything, uh, you know, positively or negatively about what they, who they should hire. [00:08:08] And the reason for that is not because I don’t want people and, you know, other family lawyers to, to get referrals and get business. It’s just a very personal. Uh, connection. Um, it’s a very relational business. That’s why it’s hard to scale. You know, it’s hard to scale up attorneys when you’re talking about personality types. [00:08:26] It’s hard to scale up staff when you’re really involved in the trenches and you want the, you, you want your kind of message to be carried forward and your mission statement to be carried forward. So the business side of that is, is massively important. Like Andrea said, when you first make those calls, those first interactions, those are huge pieces. [00:08:44] And, and, and we talk like good business people talk with their staff and team the very first. I mean, and it doesn’t have to be a long conversation. I can get a text from somebody that says, Hey, this person’s called four times. Uh, you know, they’re very. For an initial consult. They said they don’t wanna [00:09:00] pay. [00:09:00] They’re be being rude about this and that, like, that comes up the, the chain. And, and it’s not that I don’t understand, uh, stressful situations. It’s not that we’re not empathetic, but, but keep in mind you are setting the tone for how successful we can be as your attorneys in the very first few minutes. [00:09:19] And I tell our staff that I said, you know, the very first email you send out. If it has a typo in it, it can be something really simple. I caught one the other day and it’s like, I don’t sit there and hover and micromanage, but it was a, it was a supposed to be A–T-O-O and it was a TO, right? And that happens with autocorrect, but when you’re typing a paragraph, and that’s the first paragraph that a client sees that is setting the tone. [00:09:44] So when it comes to going back to being, you know, a lion and all that other stuff that does appear soapboxy, you know, you a, a real lion in my industry, in, in our industry of family law is someone who pays [00:10:00] attention to all of those details. All of how the staff communicates, when the staff communicates, how the consult is set up, how the client’s able to pay, whether they have a portal. [00:10:11] What access they have. Those are the logistical pieces that took 15 years to build. Right. That doesn’t happen overnight, and I know that there’s some businesses out there that can scale up faster than the Sisemore Law firm, and I don’t pretend that there’s not, and that we’ve got all the answers. What I’m getting at is if you are a one or two man attorney shop, or you have, you know, your office is spread out about amongst a bunch of counties and you’re not actually involved in the day-to-day, in my opinion, that that is a different. [00:10:41] Type of an attorney, uh, that is looking at a different model. So the client needs to be aware of that. You know, when they also call, similarly, if they call me and they go, well, Justin, I heard you say that if you’re spread out then and you’re the person and you’re involved, I don’t, I don’t do every single piece of the case. [00:10:56] And so that’s because. A a, I’m trying to [00:11:00] be a lion in our industry and that, that, that implies humility. That implies that I also understand that there are people in my firm that work underneath me or for me, or with me that are better at certain things than I am. There’s also judges that, like somebody’s personality traits for a different type of case better than I am. [00:11:19] So the, the, the lion in my opinion remains humble in that regard. Thinks about the client first, the process, the servant’s heart that we talk about, but can bite your head off if we need to. And that’s, that’s really important because that should be the lawyer’s decision and not the client wanting a pound of flesh.

Mary – [00:11:40] So we should talk about, you know, the client too, because as you said, the, the world is changing, people are hearing all sorts of crazy things on social media. They’re, crazily wanting to, I shouldn’t say crazily, wanting to stand up for their rates, ’cause you should, but sometimes they go too far and sometimes those actions and their [00:12:00] behavior. [00:12:01] Gets in the way of their legal case. You know, in, in looking to the different stages of the divorce process, you touched on the temporary orders, but we can also talk a little bit about, what they need to do from their perspective, like during temporary orders, discovery and, and so on. 

Justin – I, I think when you, when you’re talking about the individual component, I [00:12:22] I try my best to, to project things that have worked well for, for myself and other people that we’ve worked with. Uh, you know, by way of comparison in cases, um, I talk about what a successful client has looked like for our firm. So that, so that it gives a client a perspective. And, you know, Mary, I think by now, you know, we’ve got so many boxes in our family law world, right? [00:12:48] It doesn’t mean that. Every zebra has the same stripes, but they are pretty close. Okay, so when somebody calls me with a fact pattern, uh, you can kind of jump to what you think the [00:13:00] recipe is gonna be for the individual, for the case strategy when you’ve done something thousands of times pretty easily. Now [00:13:07] There’s some curve balls that get thrown in there, but, but, but understanding the human, you’re dealing with the human on the other side to a, to a degree. And I will say that clients don’t understand how we do this, but when you’ve done, you’ve, you’ve heard the same types of stories, you’ve seen the timelines that have the same types of facts. [00:13:25] They’re in the same industry, uh, they have the same financial aspects. There’s a lot of similarities and parallels. So the very first thing I do with clients is get them on their best foot first. Now, it does not always happen overnight, but, but thinking about, you know, if, if someone is having a substance issue, get ’em to freaking rehab. [00:13:45] If they’re having, you know, insecurities and doubts about themselves and, and you know, the husband has gone off and married some, you know, half or is dating some woman half his age and, and, and she’s feeling my client’s feeling insecure about, you know, her physical [00:14:00] presence or she doesn’t have a, a strong sup support system. [00:14:03] It’s, it’s giving some tools. In that regard so that the client can at least attempt to be the lion that I, they expect us to be. Um, and when we talk about why we do this job, the reason I do this job still to this day and will continue to preach from as loud the pulpit, as loud as I can on this, it is to watch the transition it is to see the change in humanity. [00:14:27] It is not happen. It does not happen on every case. It may happen on 30% of the cases if we’re lucky where people make some real deal changes. And, and so that’s the, the piece of getting the client to the spiritual, the emotional, uh, the physical. Those are pieces of what I think we should do as family lawyers or counselors, if you will. [00:14:50] And, and, and equip people with the, with the ability to get over the hurdle that they’re facing. I did a consult yesterday. Uh, this lady had been married 40 years. [00:15:00] Um, and I’ve had a few of those recently. And it’s just, it’s weird because I, there, there’s no divorce that’s ever okay in my books, and they, they’re all, they all have emotion with them and the people that say, well, I’m just ready to be done. [00:15:10] This doesn’t bother me at all. Just get me outta here. They’re gonna have moments where they break down. But that, that lady who literally was super, super kind, she had her head in the sand as much as probably any client I have seen in the history of consults and my career husband makes tens of millions of dollars in doing God knows what. [00:15:31] Has her very restricted on finances. She has lived that way for a long time, uh, and allowed that to happen for a long time. Doesn’t know, uh, even the first step about paying a bill or anything else. Now, some of you can shake your head and go, well, what an idiot. Why’d she let that happen? Well, the reality is [00:15:49] That’s why I never take people, uh, outside of the circumstance that they’re in. And I never conclude and never speculate. I could go on for 30 minutes as to how she got in [00:16:00] that position, but the reality is she’s in it and how do I fix it? Well, first we had to just get her simple things like understanding how to open a bank account. [00:16:08] You know, and understanding that, hey, instead of calling the office 30 times because you’re confused about the computer situation and the portal and all this, let me help you with some, some directives, some information that’s on our website, some information that’s on our blogs, some, some emails. We’re gonna have people reach out to you. [00:16:25] That’s the ho handholding piece, and I think that that lions in any industry are trying to get to a level of customer service that they’re proud of. Or they’re at least trying to make sure they don’t get the negative reviews at very minimum. I’m really trying to change humanity in a, in a small dent in the space of the city that we’re blessed to be in. [00:16:47] And the way that we do that, it starts with our attitude towards the individual. A lot of people have been kicked, right? And certainly during divorce, you feel like you’re getting kicked while you’re down. And it, it’s just, it’s critical that we maintain that mindset. [00:17:00] 

Mary – So I know we wanted to kind of talk a little bit too specifically about the different phases of the divorce and maybe, some issues some things, some do’s and don’ts. [00:17:11] Not to, not to do when you get your, your, when you get riled up and just 

Justin – Yeah, I, I mean, I, I think it’s funny because I really learn. A lot about how to deal with a client or get through a case based on my own life experiences, based on my own experiences with my staff and team. You know, when you talk about do’s and don’ts, it, we we’re all gonna have good and bad days. [00:17:35] That’s obvious. You know, the ability to harness and going back to that, you know, lion mentality. The ability to harness a response and the ability to preserve your need to project and conclude and get the other person to understand and agree with you immediately is the game of divorce. It is, in my opinion, if you, if you really want to know [00:18:00] how the soup is made. [00:18:01] It’s made behind the scenes. It’s made with patience. It’s made with determination. You know, it’s just like a real estate deal. If I go into the buyer and I’m like, oh my gosh, I love your house. It’s so beautiful. It’s amazing. I don’t know what the purchase price is yet. That’s probably gonna go up, right? [00:18:17] But if you kind of just go, okay, well this works. This fits a plan. Here’s the plan. I, I know that there’s gonna be other houses. I’m a, I’m a patient person. You know, but, but then all of a sudden you go, okay, Justin, that’s great. Well, my house just burned down and there’s no houses available. And, uh, by the way, my interest rates, my credit’s bad, and my interest rates are off now and everything else. [00:18:37] I mean, that’s life, right? So. When you look at the circumstances of the individual from the stages of the divorce case, you have to look at the real time, uh, buckets, in my opinion of what you’re trying to accomplish. So that’s why I keep people focused on this temporary orders, uh, discovery mediation. I [00:18:55] Trial component. It sounds so elementary. I wrote out, I, Andrea seen it. Probably [00:19:00] a 30 page. This is how we do stuff in the firm. And I will tell you that may, I hope at least half of my staff reads it, but it is a, it is a go to playbook of, of kind of the, the general, this is where we should be, this is about when we should be there. [00:19:15] This is the steps in the process. And none of it’s really rocket science. It all fits into the same buckets. Uh, but, but all of the key pieces of the individual and the personality and the handholding and the communication, that’s the piece that the client should be working with the attorney on at those stages. [00:19:33] So, for example, she calls, she has 10 million questions. She wants to go straight to, I’m going, she, the, the client from yesterday wants to go straight to result. And I’m like, with all due respect, you’ve been married 40 years, you have properties, you don’t even know where they are. There are bank accounts. [00:19:51] You don’t even know that exist. You have, you can’t tell me what his income is. So we gotta do a lot more heavy lifting, if you will, of [00:20:00] getting that information together before we get to strategy conference and, and, you know, in today’s world. I heard a snippet the other day. You know, they were talking about, I think they were talking about the Putin, uh, interview with Tucker Carlson, and they were talking about how he was going on for, you know, days about the history of, of you know, how, how this all came to, to being and, and, you know, agree or disagree. [00:20:23] The, the reality is we live in a world that. Is very snippet and get to the conclusion, and jump to the conclusion and, and, and sometimes skip over the details. And you know, if you’re, if you’re sitting in someone’s lens like, like his or Tucker’s or whoever else, they may be sitting there thinking, wait a minute. [00:20:41] I want you to understand me first before we jump to the conclusion of where we’re going. Well, I think that’s massively important in family law. I want you to understand the evolution of how we got here, which is why I could do the timeline. So that we understand the process, uh, of where we’re going, the strategy, and then, [00:21:00] then we compartmentalize at each step what we need. [00:21:02] So back, going back to the temporary orders, if I would’ve let that client go into conclusion mode about, well, should we trade this house for that before we have, you know, the t’s crossed an i’s dotted inventory in place and discovery and those processes in place, the leverage point of the temporary orders we’re jumping to conclusions she gets. [00:21:21] Overwhelmed. It’s not a good flow of the case. And we will do that probably seven to 10 times throughout the course. The reset, remember, here’s where we are, here’s the checkpoints, here’s the KPIs or key performance indicators. That’s, that’s why I follow that process. I. 

Andrea – And you have to follow the direction of your attorney. [00:21:38] ’cause again, I’ve been in a situation, it’s easy to jump forward and think about stuff that in this phase is not important. It’s hard to to get into that mindset, but that’s a good attorney or good staff will talk to you about that. And again, you don’t get on their nerves because good staff and we train the staff to be like that. [00:21:57] Yes, you might have heard the question a million times as a [00:22:00] staff member, the same question a million times, but guess what? For the client, this is the first time ever. They asked this question and we talk to the staff about this over and over and over again, not to get irritated or snippy or frustrated that they ask you the same question. [00:22:14] This is a once in a lifetime event for many, and they will have a lot of questions, so patience. Explaining good explanation will help the client to get through that. And again, you as a client have to make sure you have that relationship with the paralegal and with the attorney and talk to ’em about the questions you have. [00:22:30] Don’t make assumptions, ask questions. They will lay it all out. We have good processes in place and then it makes once you understand, I think that was the biggest thing for me going through divorce. Once you understand really how the process works and what happens at which stage and why they are potentially. [00:22:47] Gaps in between. Like, why can’t we do this now? Why can’t I get this and that done? Because it’s a process and there might be three weeks, five weeks, two months of nothing happening, but you’re in a good place. You just gotta be patient. So ask [00:23:00] the questions, let them explain the process. Have a timeline for yourself, understanding, and it makes it much easier.

Justin – [00:23:06] And to that point, Andrea’s been a part of many, many, many meetings with the staff. Right? You know, people are creature of habits, clients are creatures of habit. Our, our team members are creatures of habit. They, people want to jump to what they this familiar, what was easy, right? So when we shift, uh, to like a portal, um, or we shift technology inside of the business. [00:23:28] I hate, I don’t even use the word change. I try to get that outta vocabulary. We call it pivot points or whatever, whatever software, but, but change I’m trying to throw away. Whenever you do that and make any kind of substantive addition, that that is gonna be value add. You still got your internal. [00:23:45] Components of your staff going backwards, right? And so it’s getting the staff back on board, uh, you know, at the same time that you’re getting the clients to upload the information. And the client’s like, I don’t even know how to do this computer thing and I don’t understand this portal and this the, the [00:24:00] staff is going, see, I told you we shouldn’t have this portal and. [00:24:03] It’s, it’s the evolution of the, the name on the sign. And I, I challenge many, uh, non entrepreneurs out there, or entrepreneurs that are out there and budding ones. It ain’t always, it ain’t always cupcakes and butterflies to have the, uh, the name on the sign. You get kicked in a thousand different directions. [00:24:19] You take it all on the chin. Uh, yes you do, you do receive some of the benefits and rewards long term, but getting there is, is not an, is not an easy task. So point being. The reset with the client at each stage, the reset with the staff monthly you know, and, and those checkpoints. That’s, that’s just critical to stay in that timeline, in that zone, in that pocket. [00:24:43]

Mary – A lot of great points from both of you guys there. I mean, really, you know, following that process that your attorney lays out for you you know, definitely maintaining your composure throughout the process as best you can. Um, you definitely wanna do those resets with your attorney [00:25:00] when your, you know, your’re unsure if you have questions. [00:25:03] I’m not sure Sure. Where you’re going. And, oh, you know, another part aspect of this too is that is like, you really don’t wanna show. Your hand per se, in those early stages. But then going back to the lion metaphor, when it comes to a point maybe it’s a mediation or, or more likely in final trial, when you really need to go for the jug, the jugular, and that each your right approach how does that kind of transition occur? [00:25:32] When do you get to that point? Or when does the client and the attorney get to that point? 

Justin – To be clear, like I, you know, as, as, as compassionate, as, as we sometimes sound, you know, and you don’t know whether that’s real until you get in engaged with our firm and really see it firsthand. But, but, but as, as compassionate, as, as we can sound because I believe in that, I hope that that message is spread. [00:25:56] I, I also deal with people, uh, in a [00:26:00] very direct way when it comes to, uh, a client’s deal making. What I mean by that is you know, I used to, I used to just pack my stuff and just run out of the mediation room, and that was kind of the, I. Well, Justin’s just a jerk. He’s not gonna listen. Then when he doesn’t get his way, he’s gonna run outta there. [00:26:15] And, and there was probably some truth of that. Uh, but now, when you talk about a lion’s mentality, I believe that every good entrepreneur, every good business person, when they get to a level. Of, of achieving, you know, the goals that they want to in their business. It’s not arrogance, but you should be confident. [00:26:35] And confidence is not something that you have to speak and preach about, that you’re confident. I am confident I’m a good person. Those people aren’t confident. The pe, the people that are confident, the ones that go, Hey, this is how it’s gonna be. This is the way we’ve done it thousands of times. We’re not gonna change the process because you think we should for this one-off and whatever. [00:26:52] And then when you get to the trial phase. Or the temporary order space. You know, when I, I, I have had [00:27:00] probably 10 to 20 hearings in the last and or trials within the last year or so where, where somebody comes in on the other side, either the client or the lawyer starts going bananas, and I just kind of do that smile, let’s go in there and get after it. [00:27:15] Okay. And, and I do that not out of arrogance, but I know. For, to a relative degree of certainty, the ball in the strike zone, I know to a relative degree of certainty, if my client is, uh, gonna present. Well, I know to a relative degree of certainty how prepared they are, how nervous they are, how organized they are. [00:27:34] Uh, I know that there’s some, I. Things that we withheld that we didn’t share. ’cause we didn’t expose our whole hand to the other side. And I also know if they’re doing the right thing and the other side is not, and they get arrogant or they get on their, their high horse. I, I, I, I don’t say I know the result. [00:27:51] I can tell you pretty, pretty darn close what’s gonna happen. And let me be very clear as kind as I can be, uh, to a client [00:28:00] or to posing side and as, as compassionate as I can be, as much as I want people to co-parent and work together. When you are on the other side of me, there is, there’s still that in my, in my DNA and I, my parents are both the same way. [00:28:14] You get to a point where sometimes you gonna let ’em know. Right. And that’s not to boast, but it is, it is the high point of my career. When somebody goes in and they’re rude, they’re arrogant, uh, you know, my client’s doing everything they’ve, we’ve asked them to do and the other side. Continues to make it. [00:28:31] Either the lawyer or the client continues to make it a, a tough event for ’em, a tough life for ’em. And I get those calls from a client, well, what do I do? Just be patient. Just trust me on this one. And then we go in there and show. Right? When I’m, when I’m in the show, that’s the Super Bowl. You walk on the, well, you walk in that arena, there ain’t no more deals. [00:28:48] Right. By the time I’m prepped and ready to roll, with the limited exception of coming back with more and all of the preparation and fees, by the time we get to D-Day, it is go zoned. [00:29:00] And I have sat down. I literally, I, I think this was about a year ago, sat down and had the attorney come up. Uh, we made a very, very reasonable offer. [00:29:09] Made follow up offers. No response. No response, no response. Uh, they hired another, uh, co-counsel on that case. They came up to me at the, at the. Uh, courthouse. They’re like, you know, the judge is gonna grant the continuance. It was by, by the way, that was their backyard in their thought, in their thought process. [00:29:25] And it was, I won’t mention the county ’cause it narrows it down too much, but it, it was, their backyard, uh, came in there and they said, the judge is gonna grant a continuance of this. I said, I, you know, I, I don’t know. I, I’m, I’m not clairvoyant or I’d be on a yacht, so let’s just see. The judge said, no, not granted. [00:29:40] Continuance. Sit down, set up. We are ready to roll. Separate property, $2 million claim. Uh, we offered a million bucks ’cause there was some, there was a little bit of discrepancy on how the company that owned the house and when that came to fruition, what the stock ownership was and all that. And literally they said, okay, we’ll take the deal. [00:29:59] I [00:30:00] said, Nope. Nope, we are ready to go. There was a lot of arrogance from the attorney, a lot of, a lot of rude back and forth. Made my client really spend some money, really suffer through the process. Uh, a lot of, a lot of, you know, this is me puffed my chest. We sat down get the, I get our expert up on the stand. [00:30:16] Took the case, took about six hours to try, blank them zero. So literally the week before a million bucks, right? The, the week after zero. That’s a tough, that’s a win in my book. Well, tho those are home runs, right? The client may not feel like that. This client certainly was very appreciative, but, but that’s a home run in the family law, which is very hard to show a win and a loss because people are going through tough times. [00:30:43] But my point is, is that when you get a lawyer that cares about people and his clients certainly, and his staff and his performance, his name, the firm or her name, the firm and all that, and it’s not just a. A business decision, it’s a passion. You better believe and understand [00:31:00] when I get that steak thrown in from me, I’m gonna eat it.

Mary – [00:31:03] Absolutely. So, uh, in closing here, let’s do a kind of a final, take us to church moment, Justin. And let’s, let’s talk to clients a little bit about coping during divorce, because, because you do really wanna help people see the silver lining in the other side. And you I, I loved, uh, the reference you shared prior to the podcast about God sharpening our sword, um, and making it through that struggle. [00:31:25] So if you can speak to that briefly before we wrap up, that’d be great. 

Justi – Yeah And, and I know a lot of people are afraid to mention their spirituality and all that. I, I, I get it. And I, I don’t, I, I, I, I’ve told people a thousand times, I can’t possibly judge you. I sin just like everybody else. I don’t judge you from sexual orientation to anything else. [00:31:42] I don’t need to project anything on you. I have my own beliefs on that. You know, I keep those compartmentalized and, and. And I don’t, I don’t judge people because of circumstance. My job, if I’m truly doing what I believe. And as a Christian, I believe that my job is to be humble, uh, [00:32:00] to love your neighbor as you love yourself, and to project in all ways that, that one philosophy. [00:32:05] And I, I think that, you know, we get so wrapped up in religion and so and so, and so and so feels this way, and they’re. They’re conservative or they’re liberal and all this other jazz. I I, I, I don’t put myself in a box and I really love people that don’t do that because I think when you get your mind into, uh, the mentality of if I am just doing the right thing in a little bit better, I. [00:32:28] One day, then the day before, and I’m gonna fall and I’m gonna rise. And, but I’m, we’re all in this together like that. If we kind of take the mentality of that, I, I, I really do believe that, that that big things can happen. Um, and so when we go back to what makes me tick. When I look at, uh, suffering and sharpening your sword and moving to the next stage of life, you know, I, I, I know that many Christians out there [00:33:00] here things like, well, why, why do bad things happen to good people? [00:33:03] Um, and, you know, why does this have to happen? What I can say for me personally is that. You know, we’ve all gone through sufferings. We are designed to suffer. We have been put on this planet, whether you’re a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Jew, whatever, uh, your religion is. We are all designed to understand the concept of good and evil, right and wrong. [00:33:28] Suffering and feast and famine, right? I think when we were running around chasing pieces of meat and you’d get to eat, it was a nice thing when you got to eat. So we are conditioned physiologically, psychologically, emotionally, spiritually in those regards. And so what I would say to people going through this process is, your suffering should sharpen your sword. [00:33:52] That’s a tongue twister. Uh, it it, it should sharpen your sword because. If it does not, my [00:34:00] belief is that God will continue to lump you on the head until, until you, until you make some changes. Right? Um, and you can feel it. You can feel it with alcohol, you can feel it with sin, you can feel it. With overeating, you can feel it with all kinds of these things. [00:34:14] Right. You know, let’s take the religion out of it. If you just look at good and, and, and, and right and wrong. Good and evil. You know how you feel when you wake up and make your bed and you go to the gym and you know, you do a few of the right things that you had on your schedule for that week and you don’t let the, the other side of the bad voice tell you, Hey, don’t do this ’cause you, you can do it tomorrow. [00:34:36] You know the way that feels right. My belief is, you know, that there’s a higher power up there. Uh, that’s Jesus looking down on us saying, Hey dude, here you go. This is the way you’re gonna live. And if you don’t. I’m gonna show you the other side of that coin, and I want you to live that way so that you experience a good life on Earth. [00:34:54] Uh, but that doesn’t mean because if you get a divorce or you’re going through a divorce, you’re a failure, right? So [00:35:00] it’s picking up, it’s one step in front of the other. It’s dusting off. It’s saying, Hey, there is light. I’ve seen people do. Complete one eighties, I’m talking 10 a year at least. Complete one eighties of humanity. [00:35:14] Uh, alcohol, drugs, physical violence, uh, how they, how they were raised, narcissism, love. And, and so when you compartmentalize somebody because they go to a psychologist and they tell you, Hey, this person can’t be this. There’s some truth to some of that, and I’m sure that there’s somebody way smarter than me that’s, you know, been reading a lot of books about that, that. [00:35:33] They can tell you that there’s no way they can change. But there’s also somebody that wrote a book that’s been around for a long time, maybe 2000 some odd years, that um, you know, has, has some, some ideas in it too, uh, that, that seemingly, uh, hold true. I. Um, and so I, I don’t, I don’t believe in compartmentalizing. [00:35:53] I don’t believe the client is a, is less than I don’t believe because they have a lot of money that they’re gonna be a great [00:36:00] client. I don’t believe that because they’re broke, they’re gonna be a bad client or good or bad person. Uh, I, that’s just concluding and speculating. And again, I’m gonna keep saying that till this podcast dies. [00:36:11] Do not come to my office and compute, conclude, speculate. That’s why we have facts. That’s why we have timelines. That’s why we have process. That’s why we talk about lions. Um, and I guess you can say sheep and tigers and bears if you like too. 

Mary – And tigers and bears. Alright guys, well I think that’s a great place to wrap up.[00:36:31] Any other thoughts before we take off for the day? 

Justin – No, I think we’re good. Just give us a call. We, we, we can go through this and, you know, these podcasts are designed to help you. They’re, they’re not always specific to what your issues are, but we get down into the specifics in the, in the, in the, in the, uh, consults will certainly work through issues with you, and I just hope you feel the energy because the, the energy is the piece that, that makes, uh, this whole [00:37:00] business worth my time and energy.

Mary – [00:37:03] Absolutely. So if you would like to talk to Justin, contact the Sisemore Law Firm. You can call him at (817) 336-4444 or visit www.lawyerdfw.com. We also invite you to follow the pac. Podcast and share it with friends who might find it helpful. 

Announcer 1 – Thanks for listening in and have a great day. Thank you for listening to In Your Best Interest with Texas Divorce Attorney and entrepreneur Justin Sisemore. [00:37:31] The content presented here is provided for information only and should not be construed as legal, tax, or financial advice. Click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available.